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Meeting Logs | Community (2017-09-16 & 2017-09-30), Dev (2017-09-17 & 2017-10-01), and Kovri (2017-09-24 & 2017-10-06)
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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-09-16
summary: Community highlights, Forum Funding System discussions, workgroups and resources, Monero support, translations, open ideas time, and miscellaneous
tags: [community, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 16th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<sgp>** Starting the meeting (on the correct channel this time)
**\<sgp>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting
**\<sgp>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/115
**\<serhack>** Hey
**\<sgp>** Monero Community meetings intend to be a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We plan to use this meeting and future meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp>** 1. Greetings
**\<cryptochangement>** hey all!
**\<msvb-lab>** Hi folks.
**\<erciccione>** hello
**\<hrumag>** Hi all
**\<Xil3>** hello
**\<QuickBASIC>** yo
**\<ajs>** hi
**\<rehrar>** yo yo
**\<parasew>** greets from riat.at
**\<0ak3y22>** hi
**\<sgp>** @rehrar will help me run the meeting today, since he's awesome and has a lot to say
**\<lafudoci>** Hi
**\<sgp>** 2. Community highlights
**\<serhack>** Okay
**\<sgp>** First and foremost, congrats on a successful hardfork! The community is calling them “protocol upgrades” to better explain what is happening to new community members: https://getmonero.org/2017/09/13/september-15-2017-protocol-upgrade-hard-fork.html
**\<erciccione>** yeee good job all
**\<serhack>** Great work!
**\<cryptochangement>** woo hoo!
**\<hrumag>** Good news, now we have also Monero Cash :) (joking)
**\<sgp>** This fork upped the minimum ringsize to 5, brought mandatory RinCT, and a ton of other improvements
**\<QuickBASIC>** 🎉
**\<sgp>** \*RingCT
**\<serhack>** thanks to devs, Monero is more secure than yesterday
**\<sgp>** TheMonera came out of seemingly nowhere and posted some amazing Monero posters on their website: https://www.themonera.art/
**\<sgp>** There were Monero meetups in Berlin, Silicon Valley, and Sheffield. I also learned that Monero Austria is still going strong and had a recent meeting in Linz (thanks @parasew!)
**\<parasew>** yay!
**\<cryptochangement>** thats pretty awesome
**\<sgp>** Does anyone else have some highlight they would like to add?
**\<parasew>** we will make more meetups in Vienna in the coming months,
**\<parasew>** also in case anyone of the community is ever around vienna, there are worktables in RIAT
**\<parasew>** in this case just ping me before, here are pics of the space:
**\<sgp>** \^ a pretty cool place
**\<parasew>** https://riat.ac.at/about
**\<parasew>** (on the pics its empty, there are tables inside now :)
**\<parasew>** last year we have been present at the CCC in hamburg with a "crypto lab",
**\<parasew>** where also fluffy and others from the community were coming,
**\<parasew>** this year we plan the same at the CCC in leipzig,
**\<parasew>** and also with a strong monero focus.
**\<parasew>** i will send more updates and infos as soon as i have them,
**\<sgp>** Good to hear. Keep us updated, and let us know what you need :)
**\<parasew>** but basically we are looking for presentations, etc. which we could present at the CCC
**\<serhack>** *cough monero Meetup Kit cough*
**\<parasew>** also i was reading that the hardware wallet is planned to presented at CCC, this could ofc also be in this context.
**\<msvb-lab>** parasew: I'll likely be at the 34C3. How do you propose I and others who want to join you communicate about this?
**\<parasew>** msvb-lab good question,
**\<endogenic>** msvb-lab: twitter group for monero attendees?
**\<endogenic>** Group -\> chat
**\<endogenic>** That's what we did for the Vegas party
**\<msvb-lab>** endogenic: Usually a group leader makes an 'assembly' entry in the 34C3 wiki, but we need to coordinate for that.
**\<parasew>** yes, or we can discuss this here in the channel? i will make sure to be around from now on, and can also announce it on reddit (so we have for example a specific date to discuss it irc)
**\<sgp>** This channel is fine. Feel free after the meeting
**\<msvb-lab>** parasew: Okay that's a good choice. After the meeting we'll keep hanging out...
**\<sgp>** I'm going to move on to the next topic to keep the meeting on schedule :)
**\<serhack>** :)
**\<sgp>** 3. FFS updates
**\<sgp>** For those new to the Monero community, the FFS stands for the Forum Funding System. It’s like a GoFundMe with Monero, where people can pitch ideas and receive payment when set tasks are completed.
**\<sgp>** There are several FFS updates, and Riccardo moved a bunch right before this meeting: https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/909095290531143681
**\<sgp>** My FFS for my meetup talks has moved to funding required: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88081/justin-s-local-meetup-talks-proposal-3
**\<sgp>** moneromooo posted their FFS for October-December: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88298/mooo-full-time-october-december
**\<cryptochangement>** its also a bit more controlled than gofundme so funds dont get released until "milestones" are hit
**\<sgp>** rehrar is expanding his community role by spending more time on Kovri (moved to funding required): https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/88390/assistant-for-kovri-project-management
**\<rehrar>** oh dang! So has mine! :D
**\<sgp>** Following the enthusiasm and suggestions form the last meeting, I have created a FFS for the Monero Meetup Kit: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/88374/monero-meetup-kit
**\<sgp>** anonimal already offered some excellent advice when he suggested including Kovri stickers and pamphlets in the box too.
**\<sgp>** However, there are two that we would like to highlight during this meeting. The first is the second integrations FFS proposal: https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/88414/monero-integrations-second-ffs
**\<endogenic>** rehrar++
**\<sgp>** This is being proposed by serhack and cryptochangements. I would like to give them some time to discuss the basics of this proposal and what it means for the community. It was moved to funding required.
**\<serhack>** Yes @sgp Thanks for introduction
**\<serhack>** Okay let's discuss about our ffs
**\<tlehman101>** Hey, how would people feel about posting an informational monero guide and use case to the fakeids Reddit? It could concisely explain why it's better than Bitcoin for vendors and purchasers. Is it not worth it (reputation wise) to market to the dn?
**\<notmike>** greets community
**\<sgp>** @tlehman101 great topic for the open ideas time
**\<tlehman101>** My bad
**\<serhack>** So the first news is http://monerointegrations.com hits +500 views
**\<serhack>** Almost 100 views/a day
**\<serhack>** Xmr requested for ffs: 49
**\<serhack>** There will be three extension: whmcs, opencart and magento
**\<serhack>** Any questions?
**\<serhack>** cryptochangements ping
**\<msvb-lab>** Are all three PHP based, or python?
**\<serhack>** Php based
**\<cryptochangement>** php
**\<parasew>** serhack: there was also a post on reddit featuring an overview of integrations - i was also wondering why these specific implementations have been chosen by you
**\<msvb-lab>** Good to see Magento there, I think there's quite a community around it.
**\<serhack>** Currently nobody suggested me others famous e-shop with python
**\<msvb-lab>** serhack: How does your prestashop relate to this?
**\<serhack>** These specific integrations will be developed by me and cryptochangements
**\<cryptochangement>** the platforms choosen last time where simply because they are very popular
**\<msvb-lab>** For those who don't know, Prestashop is a plugin to a Wordpress type ecommerce package. It's quite polished, looks ready for prime time but is not stand alone.
**\<serhack>** I'm doing some testing in order to maintain woocommerce and prestashop
**\<serhack>** No, msvb-lab
**\<serhack>** Woocommerce is a plugin of wordpress
**\<cryptochangement>** prestashop does not run on wordpress
**\<cryptochangement>** prestashop *is* prettymuch stand alone
**\<serhack>** And prestashop is a cms powered on e-shop features
**\<msvb-lab>** Prestashop is stand alone, oh nice.
**\<serhack>** ;)
**\<parasew>** here was an overview of systems and integrations on reddit from yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/704igy/shoutout_to_serhack_and_the_monero_integrations/dn1k2ob/
**\<0ak3y22>** magento is the main one
**\<serhack>** What do you think about developing an e-shop only for Monero?
**\<0ak3y22>** i would accept monero if it got magento
**\<serhack>** Is that cool?
**\<ajs>** like a shopping cart
**\<serhack>** Okay @0ak3y22
**\<rehrar>** I wonder if we can develop a shopping cart option that doesn't use Javascript?
**\<msvb-lab>** NodeJS.
**\<serhack>** We can rehrar
**\<serhack>** Lol msvb-lab
**\<msvb-lab>** NodeJS, please. Not Lol, it would be a great interface.
**\<cryptochangement>** rehrar its possible, but most e-commerce solutions use js anyways
**\<serhack>** I'm going to eat now
**\<serhack>** Cryptochangements you have the control of discussion
**\<serhack>** Bye
**\<rehrar>** Understood, but there's many who might prefer no JS
**\<cryptochangement>** ok cool
**\<sgp>** @cryptochangements anything else you want to talk about
**\<cryptochangement>** that could be something to look into
**\<erciccione>** i agree with rehar, would be great to avoid js
**\<erciccione>** *rehrar
**\<cryptochangement>** one more thing sgp
**\<cryptochangement>** give me a second to type it out haha
**\<cryptochangement>** if you look at the FFS thread, serhack mentioned a possible fourth milestone. this would be a standalone open source e-shop platform that accepts only monero. no need to rely on third parties like wordshop or magento. the goal would be to allow anyone to download that software, put it up on your server, and be able to setup an e-shop that accepts only monero
**\<cryptochangement>** creating out own platform would also fee us up to to do things like making sure that everything works well without js
**\<rehrar>** a CMS-agnostic platform, yeah?
**\<parasew>** cryptochangement: this would be php/mysql or js?
**\<cryptochangement>** php/mysql and prefferanly zero js
**\<cryptochangement>** \*prefferably
**\<Xil3>** sounds great
**\<parasew>** cryptochangement: ok (because you wrote: need feedback)
**\<rehrar>** As a web dev, I see some potential problems for this, but I can discuss them on the FFS proposal itself for the sake of time
**\<selsta>** I would like something like cloakvpn.com.. They use the payment ID for username + password, thus not requiring an account
**\<selsta>** but I think that would be easy to implement
**\<cryptochangement>** ok, thanks rehrar. you could also pm me if you want
**\<sgp>** @cryptochangement I'm going to move on to another discussion now, ok?
**\<cryptochangement>** sounds good
**\<sgp>** The second FFS proposal being discussed is the dedicated Monero hardware wallet. Community feedback was gathered during the last meeting, and it has now moved on to Funding Required: https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88149/dedicated-monero-hardware-wallet
**\<sgp>** I now would like to ask msvb-lab to speak more about this proposal.
**\<msvb-lab>** One month of prestart research has yielded a proposal to contribute (fund, provide ideas, anything else) to Monero's first dedicated hardware wallet:
**\<msvb-lab>** I wrote the proposal, will devote a half year's work, and can answer questions now... Any ideas, questions, or opinions?
**\<sgp>** It's a large and respectable undertaking
**\<quickbasic>** What is it going to do that Ledger won't be able to?
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: It's a bit big, yes. The perception to break the FFS into individual months is a bit hard though.
**\<selsta>** an open-source alternative to Ledger would be beneficial in the long run
**\<rehrar>** imo, the people who are saying that Ledger is doing it already so what's the point, aren't looking at the big picture. The ultimate goal (at least as I see it), is to make things as decentralized and trustless as possible. Having an open-source hardware wallet (software AND hardware) is invaluable.
**\<hyc>** Isn't the Ledger code already open source?
**\<msvb-lab>** quickbasic: There are a few differences, opensource is one, it's possible that Ledger fails to do crypto for us in hardware due to our different ECDSA curve.
**\<msvb-lab>** hyc: Closed source.
**\<msvb-lab>** The Bluetooth model that will cost $300 is a bit more open, but still fails in the SE department.
**\<pero>** i see you want to talk to gemalto? i have some experience with them and would think they're much too large to have any interest in this
**\<msvb-lab>** And I'm not sure how many folks want a hardware wallet that is accessible over RF.
**\<quickbasic>** Okay. Makes total sense.
**\<hyc>** yeah, bluetooth seems like a misfeature here
**\<msvb-lab>** pero: I don't hold too much promise for Gemalto, but if you have experience please make yourself available for a question or two later?
**\<msvb-lab>** By the way, there's a ton of can of worms type questions with this six month FFS.
**\<pero>** i used to share an office with a former c level exec there so just have anecdotal info
**\<msvb-lab>** We can't answer them here, but I'm usually around on IRC and tomorrow again during the dev meeting.
**\<smauginjapan>** msvb-lab, I agree with hyc, I think the goal is to not necessarily have as many features as possible, but instead concentrate on bulletproof security.
**\<selsta>** imo Ledger is still a company and they can decide not support Monero at any time
**\<rehrar>** excellent point selsta
**\<msvb-lab>** selsta: Yes, that's another problem with not having control but...
**\<msvb-lab>** Lets not bash Ledger too much, they are doing a great job.
**\<msvb-lab>** We need Ledger, Trezor, and all the others on board and working with Monero just as we do our own dedicated wallet as well.
**\<selsta>** (just as an example as they are the “alternative”)
**\<sgp>** Anything else, or can we keep moving?
**\<smauginjapan>** an open hardware wallet is an equaliser to potential shennanigans by other companies .
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: If we're behind schedule then move on. Otherwise I'll say a few more things about the dedicated hardware wallet.
**\<msvb-lab>** We can move on.
**\<sgp>** @msvb-lab thanks. If there's time left you can have it
**\<msvb-lab>** https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/88149/dedicated-monero-hardware-wallet/
**\<sgp>** 4. Workgroups and Resources
**\<msvb-lab>** ...if you want to donate. Or more questions, come back for tomorrow's dev meeting.
**\<sgp>** This is a big announcement that has been in the works for quite some time. Rehrar will give a brief word on what workgroups are, and some exciting new resources that the Monero Project is offering for free to budding workgroups.
**\<msvb-lab>** Same time, but the -dev IRC channel.
**\<rehrar>** Hey everyone. So we got some big stuff to talk about.
**\<rehrar>** I'll be submtting a document to the Monero Project Meta repo soon about Workgroups and what they are
**\<rehrar>** for now, I'd just like to paste some relevant portions of the document to answer the questions of what workgroups are, and why we need them:
**\<rehrar>** "Because Monero does not have a central structure in which to manage every project that comes from individuals or groups, Monero has a great strength (which can also be considered a weakness is some circumstances) of being an initiative-based project. This means that if something is not being done, and an individual or group would like it to be done, they should do it instead of wait for others to do it."
**\<rehrar>** "The Monero Project thrives when the community is given the freedom to work on projects that they have both passion and ability for, and is at its worst when everyone expects everyone else to get things done (often for free)."
**\<rehrar>** "A Monero Workgroup is defined as a grassroots initiative by an individual or group with the intent of furthering The Monero Project."
**\<rehrar>** "Monero Workgroups can take many forms. Some might be formal, with a defined leadership, bylaws, and dues, and others might be informal, with a fluid membership and loosely defined goals. Each workgroup is free to make their own goals and structures, and doesn't need anyone's permission to operate, or even exist."
**\<rehrar>** A big example of a functioning workgroup is the Monero Community Workgroup (you're at the meeting held by this workgroup right now)
**\<rehrar>** There was another workgroup in the past with a bit more of a formalized structure called the Monero Economic Workgroup, which you can read about in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776479.0
**\<rehrar>** shoot we got monerobux in here?
**\<pero>** yes thanks to the monerobux advancement workgroup
**\<serhack>** Good rehrar
**\<rehrar>** If you have any questions on what Workgroups are, feel free to PM me, and look forward to the document which should be up today or tomorrow
**\<rehrar>** Now that we know a bit more about workgroups in general, we'd like to unveil our two newest workgroup environments: Mattermost and Taiga.
**\<parasew>** rehrar, sounds amazing.
**\<cryptochangement>** sounds awesome
**\<msvb-lab>** Cool, heard about Mattermost.
**\<rehrar>** First: Mattermost
**\<rehrar>** You can access Mattermost at https://mattermost.getmonero.org at any time. You can think of it as an open-sourced, self-hosted Slack alternative. And while we do have a slack, we would like to encourage the community to sign up here and begin using it over slack. This way, The Monero Project has control over the data and conversations, and not some third-party. We want to distance ourselves from using proprietary software
**\<rehrar>** as much as possible. Of course, it is relayed to IRC.
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Hey everyone! (from Mattermost)
**\<rehrar>** In the same way, we are also unveiling the Monero Taiga instance, which can be accessed at https://taiga.getmonero.org. Taiga is an open-sourced, self-hosted agile development environment. Put simply, it can be used like GitHub for non-coders to make projects, make goals for those projects, assign people to teams and to fulfill tasks, and more. It's a great resource, and will even integrate with Mattermost soon.
**\<ArticMine>** This all sounds great
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<serhack>** hey
**\<rehrar>** You'll find the Monerujo (android mobile wallet) already on there, as well as Revuo Monero and Kovri
**\<Xil3>** very nice
**\<cryptochangement>** great
**\<rehrar>** You can learn more about Agile Development in videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8dYLbJiTUE
**\<rehrar>** and with a bit of research, you can use a lot of cool stuff that Taiga has to offer
**\<serhack>** Monero Integrations too
**\<rehrar>** I'll be making write-ups for both of these environments soon
**\<rehrar>** We could go on and talk about the specifics about any of these things for a while, so in the interest of moving the meeting along, we'll instead answer any questions that anybody has about these two new environments after the meeting.
**\<sgp>** Very exciting resources for the community
**\<selsta>** so Taiga is an implementation of Kanban?
**\<rehrar>** it uses Kanban and Scrum
**\<rehrar>** as well as Epics
**\<rehrar>** and they all integrate with each other, and you can have one, or both on, and turn them off at will
**\<pero>** taiga is a pm tool that's made to work with agile/scrum/kanban pm methodologies
**\<rehrar>** You can make and manage your own projects.
**\<rehrar>** Basically, we're empowering and enabling the community to take charge of the direction Monero is going.
**\<rehrar>** Alright, let's move on.
**\<rehrar>** 5. Monero Support
**\<serhack>** A lot of news
**\<rehrar>** Not everyone knows, but we have a subreddit for Monero Support that we would like to start utilizing. You can go to https://reddit.com/r/monerosupport and help by answering or asking questions. This is in the effort of keeping the Monero ecosystem understandable, uncluttered, and user-friendly. Please subscribe and lend a helping hand when somebody comes in with a question.
**\<rehrar>** The transition will take some time, since there are many more people on /r/Monero than /r/MoneroSupport. However, we are confident that the community is large enough for there to be two distinct subreddits.
**\<rehrar>** We would like to reference StackExchange as often as possible in this subreddit. These two resources will work together. You can almost think of Monero Support as a less formal StackExchange.
**\<rehrar>** End goal: a cleaner Monero Reddit ecosystem for everyone. :)
**\<cryptochangement>** get ready to answer blockhain sync questions everyone!
**\<rehrar>** Unless there's any thoughts on that, we'll move on as we're running short on time
**\<rehrar>** 6. Translations
**\<rehrar>** Erciccione started #monero-translations to help people with, well, translations. If you have other languages at your disposal, consider dropping by and saying hello.
**\<erciccione>** yep, i have a couple of things to say that i just wrote down
**\<rehrar>** As an update on software, Monero Translations is trying a few different open-source, self-hosted (can you tell we like that kinda stuff) alternatives to Transifex
**\<rehrar>** sure, go for it
**\<serhack>** Great @erciccione
**\<erciccione>** thanks, as rehrar was saying the Monero Localization WorkGroup is formed, our home is at monero-translations (IRC, Slack). I encurage everybody interested in translating monero to ask there for both help (github issues, info, ecc) aswell for coordinating
**\<erciccione>** During the last weeks we checked about 5-6 platforms, but only two of them had all the requirements we needed (many platforms had problems with static websites, markdown or QT). This two were Transifex and Weblate
**\<erciccione>** The common feeling was to avoid Transifex since is closed source, so last week i started setting up a test instance for weblate, but i found some issues that neither rehrar or serhack could solve, so
**\<parasew>** erciccione, this sounds amazing. i have a few people who wanted to translate, will send them along.
**\<erciccione>** Today we started checking Pootle, from a quick check looks like is compatible and has nice reviews, but it will be nice if somebody inside the community could give some feedbacks about this platform
**\<erciccione>** thanks parasew that would be great
**\<erciccione>** i want also say that the amount of translations in the last months increased significantly (kovri docs, promo video script, GUI translations), thanks to everybody
**\<parasew>** ErCiccione: you mean feedback from a tech perspective?
**\<serhack>** I think yes parasew
**\<erciccione>** yes would be nice to have some info from who used it in past
**\<rehrar>** Ok. We're running really short on time. Anything else on this? :)
**\<erciccione>** i'm done
**\<sgp>** Unfortunately, there isn’t enough time for #7: Open ideas time. However, feel free to discuss your ideas whenever in this channel.
**\<rehrar>** Awesome.
**\<sgp>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp>** The next meeting will two weeks from today on 30 September at 17:00 UTC. It will be the Saturday before the dev meetings. This meeting time seems to work out for most people.
**\<sgp>** 9. Conclusion
**\<parasew>** i will install pootle and report back
**\<sgp>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
**\<sgp>** (side discussions can now continue, or if anyone has any open ideas to discuss)
**\<hyc>** question - is bitcointalk Monero Support forum still supported? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=652305.0;topicseen
**\<erciccione>** thanks parasew, we can talk about it in monero-translations
**\<parasew>** erciccione sure! i am just a bit sick so lets move it to the coming days :)
**\<hyc>** it seems overall the community has shifted entirely to reddit.
**\<msvb-lab>** erciccione: Is monero-translations an IRC channel?
**\<erciccione>** parasew: sure no problem :slightly\_smiling\_face: get well soon!
**\<erciccione>** msvb-lab: yes we have irc relay
**\<parasew>** msvb-lab regarding the CCC i suggest to talk in the coming days if thats ok for you. i sent you a PM with my email.
**\<erciccione>** i meant yes, relayed on slack
**\<parasew>** ccccccfrnvcljlitnrgncdujrjdfvgktcbtfbhnecjvt
**\<smauginjapan>** hyc, seems that way, the thread is mostly inactive, and that's probably a good thing too as use of bct should be eschewed wherever possible.
**\<msvb-lab>** parasew: That suits me well, I'm going to afk for the day but really want to collaborate with you for 34C3.
**\<msvb-lab>** sgp: Thanks for moderating a great meeting. Good job, even with the full agenda and lively discussions.
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar too, I guess he was the guest moderator.
**\<smauginjapan>** msvb-lab, your proposal is already half funded too :)
**\<tlehman101>** Sorry for interrupting earlier, posted before realizing the discussion was going on. I curious how people feel about posting an informational monero guide and use case to the fakeids Reddit? It could concisely explain why it's better than Bitcoin for vendors and purchasers. Is it not worth it (reputation wise) to market to the dn?
**\<pigeons>** i don't want to have association with that
**\<hyc>** agreed. they come to us if they want to. we don't market to them.
**\<smauginjapan>** tlehman101, facilitating criminal activity on reddits is asking for trouble.
**\<msvb-lab>** smauginjapan: Yes, I'm quite happy with the level of funding so far. It's only been active for exactly 24 hours.
**\<tlehman101>** Fair enough
**\<tlehman101>** The dnm guy garnered a lot of attention
**\<smauginjapan>** msvb-lab, for such a significant amount I'm actually really surpriced :), I expected it'd take weeks to get to that level.
**\<msvb-lab>** tlehman101: I saw your comment and the idea is right on. There are a couple similar resources you might want to copy, distinguish your project from, or collaborate with?
**\<msvb-lab>** tlehman101: Like:
**\<msvb-lab>** https://moneroinfo.org/
**\<msvb-lab>** ...portions of:
**\<msvb-lab>** https://getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/securely_purchase.html
**\<msvb-lab>** And it would be nice to get a Monero version of:
**\<msvb-lab>** http://learnmeabitcoin.com/guide/
**\<smauginjapan>** tlehman101, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done mind you, I'm just saying it shouldn't be done around people whose real identities are known ;)
**\<pigeons>** you can'tstop people from using monero but you don't have to encourage things that are problematic
**\<msvb-lab>** smauginjapan: I have mixed feelings about the amount, because it is large to fund machines (rather than humans) and raises pressure to get the job done (potential for sleepless nights and health damage.)
**\<smauginjapan>** Monero is all about privacy after all
**\<msvb-lab>** ...but the amount is accurate so there's no path to improvement.
**\<hyc>** Monero is for everyone. we can write docs for everyone to learn how to use it. we don't aim the docs at one specific group.
**\<smauginjapan>** msvb-lab, heh, yeah, it's a big undertaking, but you shouldn't feel alone though.
**\<hyc>** after that, it's up to individuals to be smart enough to realize that it benefits them to use it.
**\<msvb-lab>** smauginjapan: The positive part of mixed feelings is obviously that the individual tasks before the project succeeds are very challenging, interesting, and rewarding.
**\<msvb-lab>** Maybe even could say fun...
**\<smauginjapan>** indeed, a brave new world :). The hardware wallet path has been trodden a couple times though, so theres at least a trail of crumbs to follow ;)
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Just read / skimmed the meeting, but I disagree on moving threads to r/monerosupport already fwiw
**\<pero>** why
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Also we shouldn't reference stack exchange too much. It's fine to reference guides, but don't direct them to there, otherwise it'll clutter the SE
**\<dEBRUYNE>** pero: I wrote something about this a few weeks ago, let me try to find it
**\<hyc>** It's good to add solved questions to SE, and point duplicate questions there
**\<pero>** yea im sure you have a reason i'd agree with - just curious what it is ;p
**\<hyc>** at this point 99% of incoming questions have been answered before
**\<dEBRUYNE>** pero: "Kind of ambivalent on this since it's a two sided coin. Yes, it'll give this subreddit a cleaner look. However, it's more likely that their questions won't get answered as there are way more people browsing this sub. Moreover, I think it's beneficial to give newcomers a warm welcome by helping them out with their issues. If their questions don't get answered it may result in a negative experience and deterring them from getting
**\<dEBRUYNE>** involved with Monero. Furthermore, bear in mind that most of us also once started as noobs. I'll just leave this thread open to gauge the community's opinion.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** "
**\<pigeons>** yeah it can be real helpful and useful to have SE answers to point to for reference and consistency
**\<pero>** hmmm - well r/monerosupport was my idea
**\<pero>** but my 'design' for it was to have it prepopulated with a FAQ
**\<pero>** so that it doesnt start off empty
**\<smauginjapan>** dEBRUYNE, agreed, I know in the early days of bitcoin i started the sub bitcoinhelp, and it was barely used, as users simply gravitated to the most well known/used one.
**\<selsta>** if I understood correctly there won’t be an enforced rule that questions are banned on /r/monero, just that as we grow we should shift to /r/monerosupport
**\<pero>** unfortunately you cant comment on reddit threads older than 6 months so it might be challenging to keep answers uptodate over time
**\<smauginjapan>** you'd need to persistently ferry users to the new sub, and have some regulars dedicate to answering questions.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** pigeons, hyc: Yeah that's what I meant. Reference existing SE Q&A / guides to them, but ensure they don't open new questions (if not warranted) to avoid the SE getting cluttered
**\<hyc>** yeah
**\<smauginjapan>** similar to how r/xmrtrader has been rolled out.
**\<hyc>** xmrtrader has enough general interest to be self-sufficient
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I honestly doubt our community is currently big enough to warrant a seperate sub
**\<hyc>** I personally have little desire to frequent a support form
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Also support can be tricky from time to time
**\<dEBRUYNE>** As users can have very specific issues
**\<pero>** well the main sub is definitely spammed with enough support questions that it's diluting the discourse
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I personally don't mind helping them in r/monero, but I wouldn't like having to browse an additional sub for it
**\<dEBRUYNE>** The support threads don't get much upvotes anyway
**\<hyc>** agreed with dEBRUYNE
**\<smauginjapan>** yep, it got to a stage where regular price questions were redirected often enough that users moved to the sub for financial stuff.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** The relevant stuff is at the top
**\<pero>** whether those questions spilling over would be enough to sustain a separate sub is a slightly different question
**\<smauginjapan>** a similar concerted effort would be needed with the monerosupport reddit I think.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Sure, in the future somewhere
**\<dEBRUYNE>** But it's too early now imo
**\<smauginjapan>** dEBRUYNE, that's the other challenge, once they get their problem/question answered, they rarely return.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Could you elaborate?
**\<smauginjapan>** well, if people are redirected to a separate sub for support q's, it's difficult to keep them returning.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I still don't get it :p
**\<dEBRUYNE>** returning how?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** As in new support questions?
**\<smauginjapan>** maintinaing a presence at the monerosupport sub
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Well the people asking for help there are generally not the people that are (initially) capable of helping others
**\<smauginjapan>** yes, thats the thing, to make it work, you'd need to initially have a dedicated group that'd be arounf to answer q's and troubleshoot support problems, similar to how #monero works.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Right, but statiscally it's more likely there will be someone able to help in r/monero than r/monerosupport
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Thing is, I am not even sure if we could gather a dedicated group at this point
**\<smauginjapan>** it'd mostly be an altruistic thing, and that can be difficult to make self sufficient without a lot of upfront work, as well as having enough users cycling through to pick up new ones.
**\<smauginjapan>** dEBRUYNE, yes, I agree, it'd be hard, and is probably not the right time, once /r/monero hits 100k, then monerosupport will probably kick off much more easily.
**\<smauginjapan>** /r/bitcoinbeginners was initiated at around 80k /r/bitcoin users I think, and was able to create enough of a userbase to stay active.
**\<pero>** well reddit actually designs with this scenario pretty well
**\<pero>** posts from smaller subs tend to float rather high on your front page
**\<pero>** so all it would really take is a small number of regular, informed users subscribing to the smaller sub
**\<pero>** they'll see the question posts on their frontpages after only a couple upvotes
**\<pero>** designed for\*
**\<smauginjapan>** It'll require active participation from other subs to push users to monerosupport to get those threads there initially though.
**\<pero>** well yes the idea is that the main sub implements a rule that support questions are banned
**\<pero>** and that support questions are answered with a link to the support sub prior to removing the thread
**\<pero>** else there's no point
**\<smauginjapan>** that'll never work
**\<pero>** of course it will
**\<pero>** it works in fucking r/linux why wouldnt it work in r/morono
**\<smauginjapan>** healthy communities aren't built on bullying.
**\<DaveyJones>** serhack ... did you try to reach out to bigreddmachine already? you could do the podcast with him and maybe also get some further reach with monerointegrations
**\<pero>** they aren't built on people pulling half baked ideas out of their ass either
**\<serhack>** no, daveyJones
**\<serhack>** I'm not able to speak english very well
**\<pero>** so either you have an actual reason for why it wouldnt work or you can just skip this discussion and wait for one on which you have a well informed opinion
**\<smauginjapan>** pero, I literally removed you after 4 months of being on my ignore list, and you've within 45 mins, managed to put yourself back on it. I really don't know why I bothered giving you a third chance. Thankyou for saving myself a great deal of time.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** \<pero> and that support questions are answered with a link to the support sub prior to removing the thread \<= We do that with mining related questions currently
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Because the mining sub is big enough to warrant it
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I rarely see a question not getting answered there
**\<pero>** yea so why wouldnt work with general support qs?
**\<pero>** wouldnt it\*
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Because support questions are probably more tricky
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Also we don't have enough people that are capable of continously answering those questions
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Like ferret said, we can probably make that move once the sub hits 100k
**\<ajs>** @serhack @bigreddmachine maybe it can be done in Italian and have a voice over English translation a la BBC... we have monero-translations now after all... it would give it a more international feel
**\<pero>** well i think after running a sticky about the support sub for a couple months it'll have enough recruits
**\<serhack>** \@ajs lol :)
**\<pero>** i think the primary motivator here is that the main subreddit is being cluttered with support qs
**\<pero>** now, what to do about that?
**\<pero>** i've seen multiple instances of this issue on reddit being addressed by a separate sub
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Define cluttered
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Like I said, the relevant stuff is at the top
**\<pero>** we all have, even within the monero community, as you pointed out
**\<pero>** so why not go with the tried and tested solution, it might be painful at first, but if it doesn't work out after a lengthy period of time, we can always scrap the idea
**\<pero>** well there are times when half of the top 10 is support qs
**\<pero>** anyhow, i gotta jet...
**\<pero>** i really feel the idea of the support sub is sound
**\<pero>** but it does require buy-in from the r/monero mods as well as a prepulated FAQ of some sort
**\<pero>** hmm
**\<pero>** could we maybe code a bot that would automatically crosspost a question in the main sub that's marked as support q
**\<pero>** and close it
**\<pero>** so that the original poster doesnt even have to do anything?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** There's more guarantee of success if the sub is bigger fwiw. Why would we suddenly start now?
**\<pero>** well i suggested this like 6 months ago
**\<pero>** so it's more of a question of why arent we doing it already for me
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** We kinda need to just start it I suppose. I'm not sure what prep is necessary. StackExchange already has a wealth of info
**\<pero>** the main sub is way past 'large enough' imo
**\* pero** vanishes
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I personally think it's not a good idea at this point. I'll leave it at that for now
**\<antw081>** We should just hire someone to curate a "daily best of r/Monero" for pero so he doesn't have to browser through the regular r/Monero and be offended at the newbie support questions :P

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---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-09-17
summary: Discussion of open PRs and issues, release schedule, 0MQ, multisig, 0MQ, unit testing, luigi1111 as maintainer, MyMonero, MRL, and miscellaneous
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 17th, 2017*
# Overview
An overview can be found on [MoneroBase](https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2017-09-17).
# Logs
**\<fluffypony>** 1. Greetings
**\<fluffypony>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<fluffypony>** 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<fluffypony>** 4. Release timeline: moving releases to 3-months-before-forks or similar
**\<fluffypony>** 5. Maintainer: migrating luigi1111 from backup maintainer to lead maintainer on GUI and site
**\<fluffypony>** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<fluffypony>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<fluffypony>** let's start with 1
**\<serhack>** Hi
**\<hrumag>** Hi
**\<shillosopher>** o/
**\<rbrunner7>** Grüezi
**\<rehrar>** Yo
**\<i2p-relay> {-lightfighter}** hola
**\<imheretolearn>** hola
**\<msvb-lab>** hello
**\<sarang>** yo
**\<surae>** guten tag
**\<luigi1111>** Oh hai
**\<imheretolearn>** ni hao
**\<hyc>** hi
**\<fluffypony>** ArticMine / othe / smooth / moneromooo / tewinget / anonimal / endogenic / gingeropolous / iDunk / JacobJeweler / kenshi84 / knaccc / MoroccanMalinoi- / NoodleDoodle / papa\_lazzarou / wallet42 / vtnerd\_ / anyone I forgot
**\<ArticMine>** Greetings
**\<iDunk>** o/
**\<moneromooo>** You forgot fluffypony in that list.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<surae>** 22nd century historians are going to have a hell of a time writing books on the birth of cryptocurrency.
**\<moroccanmalinois>** Hi
**\<fluffypony>** pigeons sends his apologies, he let me know yesterday that he wouldn't make today's meeting
**\<fluffypony>** so anything that is wrong we can comfortably blame on him
**\<fluffypony>** since he isn't here to defend himself :-P
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** let's move on to 2
**\<fluffypony>** so not much has happened since the last meeting
**\<fluffypony>** a release or something
**\<fluffypony>** nothing major
**\<surae>** heh
**\<hyc>** I heard we spawned XMRclassic
**\<fluffypony>** Monero ABC
**\<surae>** i used XMRcash at a coffee shop, but my card was declined :(
**\<fluffypony>** inb4 XCash
**\<fluffypony>** on the topic of the release, and now is as good a time to talk about it as any
**\<hyc>** oooo, I like that one
**\<fluffypony>** as you may (or may not) have noticed this release was a little rockier than we'd hoped
**\<rbrunner7>** Yeah
**\<fluffypony>** we've known for a while that our testing horizons are too close
**\<fluffypony>** a little while ago smooth suggested having MUCH further horizons and sunsets, which I tend to agree with
**\<surae>** what are the thoughts on modifying that, then?
**\<fluffypony>** so what we'd like to do moving forward is work our horizons of a 6 month schedule, offset from the hard forks by 3 months
**\<fluffypony>** in other words
**\<fluffypony>** hard forks happen March and September
**\<fluffypony>** and code freezes happen mid-June and mid-December
**\<fluffypony>** so practically let's look at the next year as an example
**\<ArticMine>** ... but will we follow the code freezes?
**\<fluffypony>** we have 3 months from now to put stuff in the code, and then we code-freeze in mid-December
**\<imheretolearn>** will a 3 month code freeze have a side effect of slowing development?
**\<fluffypony>** that means we branch in mid-December
**\<serhack>** Okay and then a new release?
**\<hrumag>** You could follow the timeline used bu ubuntu
**\<hrumag>** by\*
**\<fluffypony>** from mid-December we have some time to test, fix bugs, get the branch stable
**\<fluffypony>** (and port fixes to and from master)
**\<fluffypony>** with a view to tagging a release as soon as we think there's some stability
**\<moneromooo>** 3 months seems maybe a bit large, but let's try it. I'm curious to see how much of a pita it'll be to have to branches.
**\<moneromooo>** to have 2
**\<fluffypony>** the nice thing is that the release CAN have bugs, because not everyone will upgrade until closer to the hard fork
**\<fluffypony>** and so subsequent releases can patch bugs
**\<serhack>** Seems good idea fluffypony
**\<sarang>** agreed
**\<moneromooo>** The only thing is that it only leaves 3 months to get range proof changes in... :/
**\<fluffypony>** it also means we can have loads of small point releases up to the hard fork, because there isn't much that changes except bug fixes
**\<moneromooo>** or 9. or 12.
**\<hrumag>** I totally agree with fluffy
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: if we don't hit the mid-December target then leave it for the next one, we have 6 months thereafter
**\<luigi1111>** 3 months seems fine to me. The release can be out a while before the fork with no negatives really
**\<fluffypony>** yeah exactly
**\<luigi1111>** Besides maybe some delay in new features
**\<fluffypony>** and it means that for 3-ish months the network is running both stable and newer versions
**\<ArticMine>** It is a way safer approach
**\<hrumag>** https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule if it can help
**\<fluffypony>** most exchanges / pools will stick to the previous stable release
**\<luigi1111>** Mooo we'll just have to get it done by December then:)
**\<fluffypony>** some brave ones will upgrade early
**\<moneromooo>** ^\_^
**\<luigi1111>** Since like, ms is working and such
**\<moneromooo>** -\_-
**\<fluffypony>** the real issue is that we have to decide on a new release name within the next 3 months
**\<fluffypony>** :-P
**\<knaccc>** Iridium Iris
**\<hyc>** Lithim lizard
**\<hyc>** lithium
**\<fluffypony>** also as pointed out this will mean that some features take a lot longer to go live in the mainnet codebase than we might hope (emergency patches / forks aside)
**\<surae>** hypothetical helicopter?
**\<fluffypony>** so it means we're going to have to be patient when things don't progress as rapidly as we'd like
**\<fluffypony>** we *can* happily deploy stuff on testnet, we've had to do massive reorgs on testnet before and it handled it just fine
**\* dEBRUYNE** grabs torches and pitchforks
**\<fluffypony>** and iirc Snipa had some experience setting up a mini closed testnet
**\<luigi1111>** I don't really think 2 ish months is "a lotc
**\<msvb-lab>** Dumb question, what's the name of the current 0.11 release?
**\<luigi1111>** "lot"
**\<fluffypony>** msvb-lab: Helium Hydra
**\<surae>** oh so hypothetical helicotper is right out. :( too bad we missed the possibility for Gluttonous Ganesh?
**\<fluffypony>** aka Hail Hydra
**\<msvb-lab>** hyc: Then lithium wouldn't work would it? It doesn't start with 'I'.
**\<sarang>** Irritable Ibex
**\<imheretolearn>** i agrree knaccc iridium iris
**\<hyc>** private testnets are easy, just takes 2 nodes pointed at each other --add-exclusive-node
**\<fluffypony>** yarp
**\<hyc>** release names aren't alphabetical, they're elements. periodic table.
**\<fluffypony>** ^^
**\<fluffypony>** there's a release naming doc in the meta repo
**\<imheretolearn>** iridium iris will have range proofs improvements, larger ring size multi sig and encrypted payment ids. major release
**\<luigi1111>** Ugh stop talking about release names
**\<moneromooo>** \^
**\<moneromooo>** Get on with it :D
**\<fluffypony>** let's move on
**\<fluffypony>** 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<fluffypony>** I'd like to start merging in the big PRs that have been hanging around
**\<hyc>** there's still a good number of PRs that could be merged soon. should we be planning a point release in the next month or two?
**\<fluffypony>** sub-addresses, multisig, 0MQ, etc.
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: yes - I had to first merge the PRs that were already merged in the branch, which I finished a couple of days ago
**\<moneromooo>** For the record: multisig is not ready yet. It's got a DO NOT MERGE sign.
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: is it waiting on code or MRL stuff?
**\<luigi1111>** yes
**\<knaccc>** I just wanted to point out, in case it had slipped through the cracks, that kenshi84 has partially implemented subaddresses in the GUI but there are wireframe mockups he wasn't able to implement because he's not used Qt much before. The mockups suggested to be implemented are here https://github.com/monero-project/monero-core/pull/793#issuecomment-314477091
**\<moneromooo>** It's waiting on me making core tests for it, and cleaning up.
**\<moneromooo>** And the core tests are a massive pita.
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: ok cool
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: is it worth looking at a different test framework?
**\<luigi1111>** all of these things are not forking, so could be added whenever
**\<moneromooo>** Not really, core tests are great, powerful, and I love them. I also hate them.
**\<moneromooo>** Once they work, they're really great.
**\<fluffypony>** knaccc: ok cool, hopefully someone can pick that work up
**\<luigi1111>** n-1 only recently started working, so I assume it needs some testing etc
**\<surae>** sarang and i are nearing completion on both the multisig paper, which requires new security definitions, and the sub-address paper (and that scheme looks pretty good!). the multisig stuff, if you held a gun to my head, i would say is secure, but until the proofs are written up, i don't want to say anything about it definitively
**\<fluffypony>** knaccc: else if we need to find a QtQuick developer and pay them we can afford to do so
**\<hyc>** so should we continue to PR to the release branch in addition to master?
**\<surae>** we anticipate both of those papers to be done as MRL bulletins by end of November.
**\<moneromooo>** I hope not.
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: no
**\<fluffypony>** release branch is for bug fixes only
**\<fluffypony>** surae: ok great
**\<hyc>** ok
**\<i2p-relay> {-lightfighter}** is there a README for writing new tests? if not could one be added?
**\<moneromooo>** No. Sure.
**\<fluffypony>** @lightfighter no there isn't, but it's something you could tackle if you're up for it
**\<fluffypony>** on the topic of tests
**\<moneromooo>** But really, I start from an existing one.
**\<fluffypony>** if anyone is unfamiliar with the codebase and wants to learn, adding tests is literally the best way
**\<fluffypony>** there are tons of things that lack unit tests
**\<moneromooo>** Unit tests are very easy to add.
**\<fluffypony>** need moar test coverage plx
**\<surae>** unit tests are. so. freaking. helpful.
**\<moneromooo>** Though they might need API changes to expose bits and bobs.
**\<hyc>** in that regard, might be nice to appoint a release/test manager, responsible to either run tests or collect test results from the community
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: good idea
**\<parasew>** will definitely start implementing tests, its in a way comforting :)
**\<fluffypony>** I wonder if we couldn't build a little web API that people could submit test results to
**\<i2p-relay> {-lightfighter}** fluffypony: i'd be happy to start working on test docs. is the GTest primer a good place to start?
**\<moneromooo>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues ?
**\<vtnerd>** boost has some such framework, but I dont know much about it
**\<parasew>** on another note: in the current gui-release, the mining has issues -- other people also reported at monero meetup.
**\<vtnerd>** various members run machines on various processors / platforms
**\<i2p-relay> {-lightfighter}** also agree that writing tests is best way to learn codebase (my main motivation for doing so)
**\<fluffypony>** parasew: then they must open an issue on GitHub
**\<dEBRUYNE>** parasew: Already reported on monero-core github repository
**\<parasew>** fluffypony ofc, will pass that on.
**\<parasew>** dEBRUYNE which issue?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero-core/issues/877
**\<parasew>** dEBRUYNE ty, will also have a look!
**\<fluffypony>** let's give some thought to a reportable web API that can collate test results, we'll figure out a nice way of doing it
**\<hyc>** a web tool sounds like a great idea. I don't know of one at the moment.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** hyc: for the GUI release I created a reddit thread with buildbot bins and compiling instructions
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Subsequently I put up all reports on Github
**\<dEBRUYNE>** But it'd be preferable if we have a more streamlined process
**\<hyc>** indeed
**\<dEBRUYNE>** (to report issues that is)
**\<fluffypony>** agreed
**\<rehrar>** Will look into it
**\<fluffypony>** we'd probably have to roll our own tool for this, let's see
**\<moneromooo>** Anyone who knows about DNS/DNSSEC btw ? We need to fix how we do that apparently, but I know nothing aobut DNS :/
**\<moneromooo>** Thoise are the failing unit tests.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I suppose though that if we'd create something like that someone still has to create issues on github
**\<surae>** sarang? know anything about DNS?
**\<hyc>** DNSSEC in particular
**\<sarang>** Protocol? Some. Implementations? Negatory
**\<hyc>** we need to find out why libunbound is complaining now
**\<moneromooo>** The complaint's likely unrelated, and due to the openssl config.
**\<moneromooo>** (assuming you mean the "invalid algorithm" or so)
**\<fluffypony>** could be openssl related
**\<hyc>** yes. I've only hit that in the past with a crippled Android libssl
**\<hyc>** so I'm surprised to see it on an up-to-date desktop build
**\<fluffypony>** I'm also open to dumping unbound in favour of another library
**\<fluffypony>** we literally only use it for DNS / DNSSEC
**\<moneromooo>** Guess I'll have a look to see what libraries there are for this.
**\<parasew>** is there an irc log online somewhere? (i came a bit late)
**\<fluffypony>** ok let's do that, Unbound has been a PITA for a while
**\<moneromooo>** Or... leave it till someone who knows about DNS pops in...
**\<fluffypony>** parasew: it'll be posted up after
**\<surae>** parasew the minutes will be posted after the meeting
**\<fluffypony>** ok let's move on
**\<serhack>** ;)
**\<parasew>** thanka fluffypony, surae i just wanted to catch up now, but its ok :(
**\<fluffypony>** 4. Release timeline: moving releases to 3-months-before-forks or similar
**\<fluffypony>** we already covered that
**\<fluffypony>** so moving on
**\<fluffypony>** 5. Maintainer: migrating luigi1111 from backup maintainer to lead maintainer on GUI and site
**\<moneromooo>** Does he agree to ? :)
**\<fluffypony>** well, moneromooo, luigi1111 has gone full-time crypto since he's made millions from the Monero ICO
**\<dEBRUYNE>** No we forced him :P
**\<hyc>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** so he can merge from atop the mountain in his Lambo
**\<surae>** i hear Lambos work real great on mountains
**\<rehrar>** Congrats Luigi. An example to us all.
**\<fluffypony>** does anyone have an objection to me moving to backup maintainer on the GUI and the site, and luigi1111 moving to lead maintainer? I'd probably still do GUI releases since they're done in conjunction with the CLI
**\<serhack>** A little fun fact
**\<serhack>** Oh great Luigi
**\<hyc>** Sounds like a good move
**\<fluffypony>** or we'll do it together or something
**\<rehrar>** Will Luigi just merge the site repo, or also put it on the server?
**\<serhack>** Congratulations
**\<hyc>** but that reminds me we need to move forward on deterministic builds
**\<fluffypony>** rehrar: pulling on the site is still manual in case the repo gets compromised
**\<rehrar>** Right.
**\<surae>** is this marking a fundamental shift in the power dynamics of Monero?
**\<rehrar>** So will he do that manual task too, or is that still you?
**\<fluffypony>** which would be embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as the site being compromised via the repo
**\<fluffypony>** rehrar: still me, but it takes me ten seconds
**\<fluffypony>** so he'll ping me
**\<rehrar>** K.
**\<fluffypony>** surae: yes, we're appointing luigi1111 as CTO (Chief Trolling Officer), whilst I focus on my role as CEO (Chief Entertainment Officer)
**\<fluffypony>** I can't do both any more, it's too much for one troll
**\<surae>** oh man, can luigi make fancy videos of people wistfully walking through the wheat? i'm not sure if anyone can do that like you. :( (moving on...)
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<imheretolearn>** globee or mymonero updates?
**\<scoobybejesus>** Mooo and other FFS to fund, perhaps
**\<hyc>** app store progress?
**\<serhack>** Ffs?
**\<fluffypony>** MyMonero Google account is ready
**\<fluffypony>** waiting on our D-U-N-S number for Apple
**\<fluffypony>** or as endogenic joked, we're waiting on our DUNCE number
**\<serhack>** How many monero have we collected for ffs?
**\<fluffypony>** scoobybejesus: huh?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I think scoobybejesus suggests to discuss the FFS proposals (if we want to)
**\<fluffypony>** serhack: open them and check
**\<fluffypony>** Olufunmilayo: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
**\<scoobybejesus>** Really just bringing them to light. Yes.
**\<surae>** MRL is about to put out our second roadmap (which includes an update to the first one). hyc already provided some copy-editing comments. we are currently looking for 1) typos and copy-editing stuff, but more importantly 2) any projects the developers feel should be included that are not being included, and 3) any inaccuracies in the statements we've made already.
**\<surae>** https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPYdEm6O54rZGpTbkcwdWMwcW8
**\<sarang>** We'll wait while everyone reads all 12 pages
**\<surae>** PM us with edits and comments. sarang and i both have edit access
**\<fluffypony>** surae: only thing I'd like to add there in section 7 is a note about zk-STARKs being preferable since no trustless setup, but memory / CPU requirements are too high atm, so maybe we just stick to zk-SNARKs in the interim
**\<moneromooo>** We'll have to decide on an ordering for merging stuff, because there's a glut again, and that means conflicts.
**\<moneromooo>** How about 0MQ first ?
**\<Olufunmilayo>** fluffypony, nvm, now that I typed it up and re read scroll back it has already been addressed
**\<surae>** fluffypony: zk-starks aren't published yet and afaik only the creators have even pseudocode. currently, unless i'm wrong, zk-starks are a myth, and until i see some proofs otherwise, i'm going to pretend like they aren't available yet. but i can mention them as a "next step" under section 7
**\<hyc>** yeah, let's go with older PRs first
**\<hyc>** although for gdb sanity I would like threadpool to go in soon.
**\<Jaquee>** shouldnt threadpool be added to release branch?
**\<sarang>** On a meta-MRL note, I'd like to offer my thanks to everyone who supported the FFS to bring me aboard
**\<msvb-lab>** moneromooo: I think it's pretty great we're integrating 0MQ, but I'm not that qualified to vote on PR arangement.
**\<fluffypony>** surae: sounds good
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: I agree - 0MQ and DRY PRs, and then threadpool?
**\<moneromooo>** OK
**\<hyc>** Jaquee: not sure threadpool counts as a bugfix
**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: Did you manage to provide feedback to tewinget?
**\<moneromooo>** Many times.
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I think he asked for that, but you were busy with the release
**\<surae>** also, the section on untraceability in monero... i need some opinions on that, too, but i want people's fresh impressions of that section. i had a certain intention when i was writing it and i want to see how well it came across
**\<tewinget>** sorry, was slightly afk
**\<moneromooo>** Is there a list of things he wanted feedback on ?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** tewinget \^
**\<tewinget>** saw my screen blink
**\<fluffypony>** Jaquee: I agree with hyc - let's avoid merging anything that could be wonky if we can, release seems to be reasonably stable
**\<Jaquee>** all right
**\<Jaquee>** we can live with a little unresponsiveness i guess
**\<Jaquee>** in gui ^^
**\<moneromooo>** er... did you check it fixed your problenm in the first place ?
**\<moneromooo>** I'm pretty sure it won't.
**\<Jaquee>** no i havent
**\<hyc>** it's worth checking. I also see responsiveness issues in current 0.11, monerod spawns too many threads during verification
**\<aerbax>** With regards to the MyMonero AppStore deployments. If Google/Android is ready, are there any ongoing issues that would prevent a release?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I think they want to release all platforms in conjunction
**\<Jaquee>** are we using the same DUNS/account for monero apps?
**\<fluffypony>** Jaquee: no, completely separate one
**\<fluffypony>** have to have that distinction
**\<parasew>** are there plans of putting the GUI into apple appstore?
**\<fluffypony>** both are waiting on D-U-N-S numbers
**\<Jaquee>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** parasew: yes, check previous meeting logs
**\<parasew>** fluffypony ok, will do :)
**\<msvb-lab>** What's the main reason for one mobile platform release to wait until others are ready?
**\<fluffypony>** Jaquee: we registered "Monero Distribution Company" as the name
**\<serhack>** Fluffypony: I have an android phone, can I test mymonero ? Can you send me an apk?
**\<fluffypony>** msvb-lab: on the Monero GUI side, nothing, we can push it into the Google Play store whenever
**\<moneromooo>** Are we done with the dev stuff ?
**\<fluffypony>** on the MyMonero side we're still busy adding some stuff
**\<msvb-lab>** Additional meeting items: Might be worth mentioning that both mattermost.getmonero.org and taiga.getmonero.org are quite bad ans.
**\<fluffypony>** mostly porting stuff from the iOS app to the JS app
**\<hyc>** coming up to top of the hour
**\<fluffypony>** thanks hyc
**\<fluffypony>** msvb-lab: we can discuss that after
**\<fluffypony>** ok so next meeting in 2 weeks
**\<fluffypony>** 1st October

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2017-09-24
summary: Brief review of what has been completed since last meeting, contributor FFS check-in / status, moving meeting date/time, website reorganization and code & open tickets discussion
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 24th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<anonimal>** 1. Greetings
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<anonimal>** 4. Moving meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** 5. Website reorganization
**\<anonimal>** 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** 7. Any additional meeting items
**\<anonimal>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** Hello
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<ajs>** hi
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Hi
**\<ErCiccione>** Hi folks
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Hi
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<anonimal>** What's covered in here https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/86967/anonimal-s-kovri-full-time-development-funding-thread?page=&noscroll=1#post-92168 which was submitted last week.
**\<anonimal>** For this week, continuation of what was covered in that link. I also happened to make an appearance in a BTC manager interview the other day. Jaime at BTC manager interviewed Michael and I re: the hardware wall
**\<anonimal>** etc.
**\<anonimal>** \*wallet
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Is that released yet?
**\<anonimal>** The hardware wallet?
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Nop the interview
**\<anonimal>** Oh, I don't know, I haven't checked.
**\* anonimal** wasn't given a release date either
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on point 2? I know everyone's been busy with kovri-related work so speak up if you'd like!
**\<rehrar>** My stuff can be discussed in the designated time. :)
**\<anonimal>** This is a review of the past though, not future immediate/future developments.
**\<ErCiccione>** quick update about localization of kovri?
**\<anonimal>** re: 2., rehrar was funded and has began https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/88390/assistant-for-kovri-project-management
**\<anonimal>** re: 2, sgp has contributed to kovri script development and has made plans to meet a professor of his to discuss kovri
**\<rehrar>** Ah, ok. I've been working hard on structuring out the new website, testing ideas in Jekyll, and how all of it fits in with the current Docs.
**\<anonimal>** Yes ErCiccione, please
**\<rehrar>** Yay! Thanks anyone who reads this now or in the future via logs for the chance to work with Kovri like this
**\<ErCiccione>** Ok, we started to localize Kovri in #monero-translation, i also added kovri related files in our todo list: https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/erciccione-monero-localization/kanban i'd like to keep this updated so please let us know (directly to me or in #monero-translations) if there is something we should care about
**\<anonimal>** Ok great
**\<ErCiccione>** that's it :)
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on review for point 2?
**\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<anonimal>** I'm here. Made my check-in, gave link during the brief review.
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: how's it going?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Been traveling, but next week should be a productive one
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** If it goes as planned, i should complete the milestone for the next meeting
**\<anonimal>** Excellent
**\* anonimal** notes that, not mentioned in point 2, MoroccanMalinois was able to do some contributing between now and the last meeting
**\<rehrar>** I'm FFS now too, so my update is that this week made me want to strangle Git, but I'm on my merry way.
**\<anonimal>** And rehrar's made huge git progress, so that's great.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Congrats rehrar :)
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on point 3.?
**\<rehrar>** I managed to stump several pro git people, so I feel somewhat proud
**\<serhack>** hey
**\<serhack>** *missed meeting*
**\<anonimal>** Hi serhack. We're still moving along.
**\<anonimal>** 4. Moving meeting date/time
**\<serhack>** :) great!
**\<anonimal>** We need to move the Sunday meeting to another day/time.
**\<anonimal>** I simply can't spend 6 to 7 days a week working at this point in time.
**\<anonimal>** I'd prefer to have meetings on Monday or Friday, and am flexible with the time of day/night.
**\<anonimal>** What is everyone's ideal meeting day/time?
**\<rehrar>** I'm pretty much good on Mondays and Fridays anytime. I'm in Mountain Standard Time, so anytime where I should be sleeping would be a preferred no, but I can make stuff work if need be.
**\<anonimal>** Alright, anyone else?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** For me just not between 5h-13h GMT
**\<anonimal>** Ok, so we can keep 18:00.
**\<rehrar>** Fine with me. Monday or Friday?
**\<anonimal>** Friday.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Fine with me
**\<ErCiccione>** ok
**\<rehrar>** Alright.
**\<anonimal>** Great. Any objections?
**\* anonimal** waits 1 more minute
**\<anonimal>** Yay, thanks everyone.
**\<anonimal>** 5. Website reorganization
**\<rehrar>** Oh, that's me. :)
**\<rehrar>** Ok, so I've been working on the getkovri.org website, specifically trying to make it more accessible for newcomers (i.e. not as many text dump pages everywhere), while also integrating the docs, keeping things easy for translators, and making sure all of this is possible in Jekyll for security.
**\<rehrar>** And it's still a work in progress (the site map I literally started to change an hour ago because I had a better idea of structuring), but I thought I'd share what I had now for comment.
**\<rehrar>** https://imgur.com/a/RN8Vy here's an imgur album with some wires and the sitemap at the bottom. Please note that these are NOT designs, but wires. Meaning it is primarily meant for placing information in the page, and not how the end page's design will look.
**\<rehrar>** If we scroll to the bottom to the sitemap, I'd like to start there
**\<rehrar>** Feel free to disagree with, comment on, critique, or whatever you want anythning I say btw. All of this is very open and fluid righ tnow.
**\<rehrar>** \*right
**\<anonimal>** Niiiice, very cool, rehrar.
**\<anonimal>** +1
**\<rehrar>** currently, if we go to getkovri.org all pages are just the docs repurposed for the website
**\<rehrar>** and a lot of the information, while good and relevant, is difficult to get through, and any change that is made in the docs has to be made for the entire website since the docs ARE the pages
**\<rehrar>** my plan is to put the docs in their own little section of the site (i.e. getkovri.org/docs) in a similar way as docs are handled by many other organizations
**\<rehrar>** let me grab an example
**\<rehrar>** https://docs.mattermost.com/overview/product.html
**\<rehrar>** as you can see here (and in the docs wire on the imgur album) on the left we'll have the docs titles, and clicking on the one you want will make it appear on the right
**\<rehrar>** I will be utilizing the same technology utilized in the https://getmonero.org/community/team/ page (no Javascript, and no need for page reload) for this page
**\<anonimal>** Looks good to me.
**\<rehrar>** This is the part that may get the most contention
**\<rehrar>** My plan is the docs that are useable for a user-friendly site (FAQ primarily) will not be included in the Docs section, but rather in the site proper
**\<rehrar>** (we can include it int he docs section as well, if we want the same info twice on the site, but I'd say nah)
**\<rehrar>** The FAQ will also be put in sections and dropdowns to make it more easily navigated
**\<anonimal>** Ok, so what's the possible contention?
**\<anonimal>** This seems fine.
**\<rehrar>** Ok, no contention then. :)
**\<anonimal>** You don't need to change kovri-docs to achieve this, btw.
**\<rehrar>** Just wondered if some people think all docs should be in the docs section for completeness
**\<rehrar>** I realize. That's the beauty of it.
**\<anonimal>** You can simply symlink what's in kovri docs to whatever you need in kovri-site.
**\<anonimal>** IIRC, unless jekyll is stupid about symlinks?
**\<rehrar>** I've already done several tests in Jekyll for a lot of this. It's all possible
**\<anonimal>** Ok
**\<rehrar>** I suggest combining the Terms and Conditions, Privacy Policy, and Copyright into one page 'Legal'
**\<rehrar>** similar to this: https://getmonero.org/legal/
**\<rehrar>** they are sectioned off so they don't run into each other
**\<anonimal>** Yep, sounds fine.
**\<rehrar>** If we scroll to the home page in the middle
**\<ErCiccione>** keeping everything in kovri-docs should also make translations easier right?(at least until we don't get the platform working)
**\<rehrar>** I'd like to put the upcoming Kovri savandra video on the page
**\<anonimal>** ErCiccione: yes
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** getkovri.org will also use "Google analytics" ?
**\<anonimal>** I hope not.
**\<rehrar>** But maybe this isn't the best idea since it will also be on I2P. Any thoughts on the video?
**\<rehrar>** There's an open-sourced, self-hosted analytics tracker that respects people who don't want to be tracked if we wanted to collect anything
**\<rehrar>** piwik
**\<rehrar>** but if not, it's not needed
**\<anonimal>** re: video, yes. We simply don't upload the video and instead serve the file directly.
**\<rehrar>** similar to how Monero is doing it, right? Or am I misunderstanding?
**\<anonimal>** Who needs the analytics and for what purpose?
**\<anonimal>** IIRC monero-site recently started google analytics. I saw the merged PR you submitted.
**\<rehrar>** *shrug* I wasn't going to include any, but was just mentioning the option since it was brought up. I don't think it's needed tbh, but I've been wrong before.
**\<rehrar>** oh sorry for confusion. My 'similar to how Monero is doing it" statement referred to the videos
**\<rehrar>** which are not on any service, they are just on the same server and when the video is clicked it just pulls the file and stuff. Not pulled from YouTube or anywhere
**\<anonimal>** Ok
**\<rehrar>** Almost done, I promise. :P
**\<rehrar>** from my understanding, at the moment people can download the nightlies or build from source using the instructions provided in the docs
**\<anonimal>** Yes
**\<rehrar>** so for now we just have that in the home page downloads section, but when the Alpha is released, we can have a downloads page.
**\<rehrar>** The top two images in the imgur album have to be clicked so the backgrounds aren't black cuz it's a png and imgur is stupid
**\<anonimal>** Ok this all sounds fine.
**\<rehrar>** but basically summarizing the docs (basically a Quick Start for Kovri) similar to this page: https://getmonero.org/get-started/using/
**\<rehrar>** and refers users to the docs if they want more details on options and stuff
**\<anonimal>** Looks great.
**\<rehrar>** ande Contribtuion helping people get ocnnected to code, donate, or raise awareness
**\<rehrar>** I'm done
**\<anonimal>** Awesome
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on point 5, website reorg?
**\<ajs>** good work rehrar
**\<anonimal>** 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: have you read my comment in #723?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Yes
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** i think it's doable with an "entrypoint"
**\<serhack>** anonimal
**\<anonimal>** *whew*, great, MoroccanMalinois.
**\<serhack>** can you tell me about the script? :)
**\<anonimal>** Hi serhack, which script?
**\<serhack>** php script headers
**\<anonimal>** What about them?
**\<rehrar>** You just not quite clear on what to do Serhack?
**\<ajs>** for check.kovri.i2p
**\<anonimal>** Let's start with basic header output. I thought I already said that.
**\<serhack>** yeah
**\<anonimal>** IIRC I did something like that for a test instance but I don't have that script anymore. IIRC it's really easy to do in php.
**\<serhack>** @rehrar
**\<rehrar>** Yeah, he's not quite sure what's meant by that, I guess.
**\<anonimal>** serhack: have you done a search for "php get client request headers"
**\<serhack>** yeah @anonimal
**\<anonimal>** Ok, serhack, when a user visits a page, have php echo back the request header sent
**\<serhack>** oh, cool
**\<anonimal>** From there we can build off of that to include other information.
**\<anonimal>** Thanks serhack
**\* anonimal** we're running out of time, must wrap-up the meeting
**\<anonimal>** 7. Any additional meeting items
**\<serhack>** your welcome
**\<rehrar>** Viva Kovri!
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: I'll make those changes tomorrow or Tuesday so we can throw out the config.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** k thanks
**\<ErCiccione>** ¡Que viva!
**\<serhack>** yeah Rehrar! Viva Kovri!
**\<anonimal>** lol lots of vivas
**\<anonimal>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<moneromooo>** As an addi... too late.
**\<anonimal>** Friday, Oct. 6th, 18:00?
**\<anonimal>** hah, moneromooo
**\<moneromooo>** Sorry :P
**\<anonimal>** Anything to add moneromooo?
**\<moneromooo>** I was just going to ask about whether you had had any other thought about a "minimal use" example for kovri's API.
**\<anonimal>** Yes, we talked about that and agreed upon that. Sounds great. It's on the table.
**\<moneromooo>** Alright.
**\<anonimal>** The new testnet is pointing out huge problems that need to be fixed though.
**\<anonimal>** We'll get there.
**\<anonimal>** Last point: next meeting on Friday, Oct. 6th, 18:00 or Friday Oct. 13th, 18:00?
**\<moneromooo>** Sure, I'm not waiting for them in particular now, so no rush of course.
**\<anonimal>** Ooo, Friday the 13th, haven't seen that in a while.
**\<anonimal>** k
**\* anonimal** prefers Oct. 6th, objections?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** nope
**\<anonimal>** Alright, next meeting on Oct. 6th, 18:00.
**\<anonimal>** Thanks everyone!
**\<rehrar>** Kthanksbai

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-09-30
summary: Community highlights, Forum Funding System updates, Monero Q&A sessions, Monero support, Monero meetups, Taiga projects, open ideas time, and miscellaneous
tags: [community, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 30th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<rehrar>** 0. Introduction
**\<rehrar>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting!
**\<rehrar>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/121
**\<rehrar>** Monero Community meetings intend to be a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We plan to use this meeting and future meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<rehrar>** Justin is at a Gophers football game today, so we can 'boo' him later.
**\<endogenic>** boo sgp
**\<rehrar>** 1. Greetings (who all's here?)
**\<cryptochangement>** hey all!
**\<vP11>** hey there lovely people
**\<ArticMine>** Hi
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** hola
**\<needmultisig90>** Hey
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** On mobile with a congested connection
**\<rehrar>** boo
**\<serhack>** hi
**\<rehrar>** 2. Community highlights
**\<rehrar>** For a great weekly summary, please read the Monero Observer: http://monero-observer.com/
**\<rehrar>** btw, he opened up a FFS to get compensated for his great work, and we should push to get it moved to Funding Required
**\<rehrar>** I can't link to it because the getmonero forum is down. I have nothing to do with the forum, so unfortunately I can't do anything about it. :/
**\<rehrar>** Ledger has been making integration progress: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/72rh39/ledger_hardware_wallet_monero_integration_some/
**\<rehrar>** Monero was featured on the IBTimes http://www.ibtimes.com/monero-rises-dark-web-why-cryptocurrency-users-want-more-privacy-2584390
**\<rehrar>** The Monerujo android wallet made it to the Google Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.m2049r.xmrwallet
**\<rehrar>** CoinHive took the world by storm. CoinHive is an in-browser JavaScript miner that was deployed on ThePirateBay and Showtime, among other sites https://coinhive.com/blog/status-report
**\<rehrar>** Mike posted the latest episode of the Monero Monitor featuring John Tromp on Cuckoo Cycle and John McAfee on Monero https://moneromonitor.com/episodes/2017-09-26-Episode-014.html
**\<rehrar>** Does anyone else have a highlight to share?
**\<vP11>** i'd like to say a few words on a project that i've been working
**\<rehrar>** g'head
**\<vP11>** I'd like to announce a side-project called Monero Brasil. It's a community hub to introduce Monero to brazilians and other portuguese-speaking regions. I'll make a reddit post after the meeting with everything I accomplished so far and whatever else I have in the pipeline.
**\<vP11>** the community hub consists of a website, facebook page, twitter and a whatsapp group (most used chat platform in Latin America).
**\<vP11>** i wanted to announce this here before posting because I'd like firstly to thank you for being an amazing community that gave me inspiration to do it. secondly because you guys are pretty much experts on community management, so I'll be looking for your feedback later to improve the community hub even more.
**\<vP11>** that will be all, thanks :)
**\<serhack>** great vP11
**\<ErCiccione>** awesome!
**\<rehrar>** Cool deal. VP, if at any point other people want to start something similar for their countries, would you be willing to help out with the steps you took and things you did?
**\<vP11>** yes. everything is done on wordpress and everything is free to be copied. i'm more than willing to help anyone who wants to do the same
**\<vP11>** maybe even do some documentation on "how to start your own hub"
**\<rehrar>** That'd be chill.
**\<rehrar>** 3. FFS updates
**\<rehrar>** We talked about many of these in detail last meeting, so I just want to say that we have more proof our community is generous. Several hundred thousand dollars have been donated since the last meeting! https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required
**\<rehrar>** Maybe as a part of next meeting, we can go through the current Ideas and Open Tasks and give comments on them?
**\<msvb-lab>** Good idea, as there is some action there in comments too.
**\<vP11>** I agree. and for now the forum is offline so make sure to save the links and go there later
**\<rehrar>** 4. Monero Q&A sessions
**\<rehrar>** We are pleased to announce that several members of the community have stepped up to have monthly livestreamed Monero Q&A sessions. These will be outlined similarly to the Kovri OpenHours showcase https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0k5lTMFXBA
**\<rehrar>** The first event will be on 7 October at 16:00 UTC, a week from today. Justin (sgp) will host the first meeting. Everyone is welcome to participate, and several community members will be there.
**\<rehrar>** Each session could feature different people. Justin may be able to make it to one session but not another, for instance. The same goes for all the other contributors.
**\<rehrar>** Again, these meetings are mostly informal. We hope that they can bring a level of accessibility, openness, and humanness to many Monero community members. Those who have questions can have them accurately answered live.
**\<rehrar>** We would like to hear your thoughts on this initiative!
**\<vP11>** That's very cool. Very nice a idea to get people to know more about Monero and also to feel "closer" to the developers and community members.
**\<ajs>** interesting idea
**\<vP11>** We can openly invite people from other communities or "pseudo-celebrities" to join and ask questions about Monero, etc, get their questions answered live.
**\<vP11>** Cool idea really
**\<ArticMine>** Very good idea
**\<endogenic>** i'm gonna try to make it on the 7th, fwiw :)
**\<rehrar>** endogenic has given it his seal of approval
**\<endogenic>** whoa whoa whoa
**\<endogenic>** let's not get ahead of ourselves
**\<endogenic>** we'll see :)
**\<rehrar>** Ok, any further discussion or ideas on this topic?
**\<needmultisig90>** Im interested in participating as well
**\<needmultisig90>** Other than that, none from me
**\<rehrar>** ok
**\<rehrar>** 5. Monero Support
**\<rehrar>** There has been some discussion on this point, specifically after the community meeting last time.
**\<rehrar>** About whether we are big enough for us to necessarily try sending support questions to Monero Support
**\<rehrar>** Thoughts on this? Is there a desire to have less support questions on the official forum? Should we be pushing for Monero Support?
**\<rehrar>** official forum = official reddit
**\<needmultisig90>** I think in the first few weeks of the sub, we should have all new threads linked into monero
**\<needmultisig90>** Gets exposure to the people who can respond, and would in theory mean no one needs to actively watch it
**\<cryptochangement>** i for one think that people should be directed to monero support similarly to how they are directed to xmrtrader for speculation
**\<needmultisig90>** I do too
**\<needmultisig90>** Have for a while
**\<pero>** well that was a critical tenet behind the idea
**\<vP11>** i don't know, i think i like having some questions directly on the r/Monero because some "support questions" bring discussions about important subjects
**\<pero>** but the main sub mods dont seem to agree
**\<vP11>** but small, common questions should be redirected
**\<needmultisig90>** Support questions are a lot of noise over signal
**\<pero>** \^
**\<cryptochangement>** vP11 there are some good questions but most of them are just "halp missing coins!!! am i screwed???" and all you have to do is tell them to wait for them to sync
**\<vP11>** cryptochangement, I agree
**\<vP11>** I guess the moderators need to judge case by case, if a support question is really just another of the same, then redirect it
**\<vP11>** otherwise, let it live in r/Monero
**\<pero>** if there isnt buy in from the mods in rmonero then it's just a waste of effort imo
**\<vP11>** in the angle that people will keep going to r/Monero to ask questions because it's the biggest sub?
**\<needmultisig90>** There is buy in from myself and debruyne, if the rule got passed at a community level
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** for /r/monero: "the GUI needs to be easier to use. here's why" for /r/Monerosupport "I need help connecting to a remote node"
**\<needmultisig90>** I can pull up logs if needed
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Buy in somewhere in the future that is, fwiw
**\<needmultisig90>** Yes
**\<pero>** pretty sure debruyne told me he isnt down
**\<needmultisig90>** But we did discuss it
**\<rehrar>** Can we try a little vote thingy? Just to get people's opinions?
**\<pero>** sure we discussed it 10 times ;p
**\<rehrar>** Yeah, let's do that.
**\<rehrar>** I will say three different statements about the Monero Support, when you agree with a statement
**\<rehrar>** raise your hand o/
**\<rehrar>** One will be positive, one will be negative, and one will be 'at a later time'
**\<dEBRUYNE> \<pero>** pretty sure debruyne told me he isnt down \<= To clarify. I said i'd be down for it somewhere in the future, when r/monero is bigger
**\<rehrar>** 1. I think we should move forward with the Support initiative now (move most support questions to /r/monerosupport)
**\<needmultisig90>** half o/
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** o/
**\<vP11>** o\> (half)
**\<cryptochangement>** o/
**\<rehrar>** 2. I don't think Monero Support is necessary
**\<ErCiccione>** i'll be alone but o/
**\<rehrar>** 3. I am in favor of /r/monerosupport, but not at this present time
**\<msvb-lab>** o/
**\<needmultisig90>** o\>
**\<endogenic>** uh oh, message sychronization issues. how will we tally the votes
**\<vP11>** o\>
**\<rehrar>** I'll assign each vote randomly to a different statement
**\<endogenic>** LOL
**\<needmultisig90>** Ffff
**\<vP11>** sounds like a good idea
**\<needmultisig90>** Wcgw
**\<rehrar>** It's obviously not an official vote :P It's just to get a rough idea.
**\<rehrar>** Ok, we'll table that for now. For the time being, we are getting a few questions here and there
**\<rehrar>** if you have the time and/or desire, please pop by and answer some that come up
**\<rehrar>** moving on: 6. Monero meetups
**\<needmultisig90>** Wait
**\<needmultisig90>** Addendum
**\<rehrar>** Monero meetups are *stops*
**\<rehrar>** g'head nm90
**\<needmultisig90>** Can we get a relay bot for new threads in /r/monerosupport into monero?
**\<needmultisig90>** I think that would dramatically increase response time and engagement
**\<needmultisig90>** Whether it becomes de facto the support sub yet
**\<cryptochangement>** ^good idea
**\<needmultisig90>** (More precisely, if I set one up, would anyone be opposed)
**\<cryptochangement>** im not gonna stop you :p
**\<vP11>** I think this is a good idea tbh
**\<rehrar>** ok then
**\<needmultisig90>** I hear no dissent, so ill just do it then
**\<rehrar>** :D Meetups
**\<rehrar>** There's an increasing chance every day that there's a Monero community near you.
**\<rehrar>** Justin's group Crypto@UMN is hosting a Monero meetup on 20 October in Minneapolis. This event is open to students and the wider community. Free food and drinks will be provided. More details here: https://gopherlink.umn.edu/event/1581653
**\<rehrar>** There were also meetups in Berlin and Silicon Valley, but I don't have deets
**\<rehrar>** binaryFate is looking for an organizer to take over the Monero London responsibilities.
**\<needmultisig90>** 1 sec
**\<needmultisig90>** https://www.meetup.com/San-Mateo-Cryptocurrency-Meetup/
**\<needmultisig90>** Meetup is on the 1st, and every 2 weeks (sundays) after
**\<needmultisig90>** Ongoing
**\<needmultisig90>** /stuff
**\<rehrar>** Cool. I can add that to the events page on the webste
**\<rehrar>** Any other meetups, either reporting on one that happened or announcing one in the future?
**\<ArticMine>** There are now monthly meetups in Toronto
**\<ArticMine>** https://www.meetup.com/Toronto-Monero-Meetup/
**\<binaryFate>** For London, more precisely a team of organizers. I know too well how a single person can be a bottleneck. I'm discussing with some folks already, looks cool
**\<msvb-lab>** Not sure if it qualifies as a meetup (whatever that is) but RIAT in Vienna is organizing one or more meetings in Vienna. A date hasn't been set but it will be early or mid December.
**\<rehrar>** Awesome stuff.
**\<msvb-lab>** The meetings will welcome all Monero community members and at least one topic on the agenda will be planning a larger Monero presence at the 34C3 in December.
**\<binaryFate>** last year we were 3 :)
**\<rehrar>** I'd like to announce and idea that ajs and I have been popping back and forth between us, for comment
**\<rehrar>** We were thinking of hosting a Privacy conference somewhere in the Southwest America (like Dallas).
**\<rehrar>** It's a big dream, and would require a lot of work, but we can see about raising some funds through FFS for space, and inviting different people in the field to join.
**\<ArticMine>** So Monero and privacy?
**\<rehrar>** Privacy Conference, powered by Monero.
**\<rehrar>** But yeah, basically
**\<rehrar>** Oh, and we're looking for sometime summer next year.
**\<vP11>** interesting. privacy is a top that is getting hotter and hotter. i might see why people would go into a conference with a focus on privacy and it would be cool to have monero on it.
**\<vP11>** i support this idea.
**\<rehrar>** I know it's a big project, and in some ways it trying to shoot for the moon, but hey, if we don't dream (and work to accomplish those dreams obviously), then we never get anywhere
**\<ArticMine>** It is doable
**\<msvb-lab>** Might be worth doing some basic 'how to protect your privacy' (EFF like workshop) or 'How does Tor work' at the privacy conference.
**\<rehrar>** exactly msvb-lab
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: Since it will be easy to cover Monero centric topics, but there won't be buy in from EFF and Tor probably.
**\<rehrar>** There can be some things for privacy noobs and veterans alike
**\<rehrar>** We can always invite. Never hurts to ask. Worst we get is a 'no', and we have someone else show the basics.
**\<rehrar>** Best we get is a 'yes' and we get more big names.
**\<rehrar>** *shrug* just an idea :)
**\<msvb-lab>** That's right, John McAffee should be invited too.
**\<ArticMine>** ... and the FSF
**\<flyasaphoenix[m]>** Offer discount for tix purchased with Monero :p
**\<rehrar>** Doing something like this would also set Monero apart further from other coins (not that we already aren't). It puts Monero as an advocate for privacy on a larger scale.
**\<msvb-lab>** Invite Richard Stallman.
**\<rehrar>** Anyways, topic in the works. To be continued. Moving on.
**\<ajs>** was thinking of sending out a call for papers on privacy issues from different areas of study.. law, social, political, economic, cryptography and maybe publish a peer reviewed journal
**\<rehrar>** That'd be cool.
**\<rehrar>** 7. Taiga projects f
**\<rehrar>** oops, just Taiga projects
**\<rehrar>** Last meeting, we announced Taiga: https://taiga.getmonero.org
**\<rehrar>** Taiga is an open-source organizational tool that allows people to collaborate on projects. It's been running for a bit now, but I'm waiting for a couple more optimizations to be made between me and pigeons with the software before making fanfare about it.
**\<rehrar>** But it's ready for use now.
**\<rehrar>** Several people have added projects to Taiga. I encourage you to check them out and add your own. We hope to integrate Taiga with Mattermost, and to make Taiga an effective tool for community members to get projects done. In Taiga, there is also a basic outline for the Mattermost migration project.
**\<rehrar>** 8. Open ideas time
**\<rehrar>** It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
**\<msvb-lab>** Taiga is quite excellent. Does anybody know about a mobile application that lets you browse, monitor, or get notifications from projects?
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** I like the conference idea, and it's probably easiest to host at a university. Work with a student group there
**\<needmultisig90>** I would like to open discussion on the current inclusion of /r/aeon on the /r/monero sidebar. /u/bigreddmachine has brought up that we show preference towards it and not other cryptonote projects, and I think we should come to a clear consensus on whether it should be included or not.
**\<rehrar>** msvb-lab they have an app, but it's very limited unless you pay (ironically)
**\<needmultisig90>** Im personally biased towards inclusion for financial reasons, and will refrain from participating
**\<needmultisig90>** I dont believe my opinion is impartial here.
**\<rehrar>** but we are working on integrating with mattermost so that when there is an update to the project, it will make a post in MatterMost about it (in your chosen channel)
**\<rehrar>** regarding Aeon, I think the biggest question is, do the values and ideals of the coin match with that of Monero?
**\<rehrar>** if the answer is no, then it should be removed. Doesn't matter who runs it, or how many Monero community members are also a part of it.
**\<msvb-lab>** What's the history that led to Aeon's preferred status?
**\<ErCiccione>** rehrar i don't think that's the right question to make since we have /r/BTC
**\<xeagu>** I posted a thread earlier that is relevant to the discussion of /r/aeon being on the sidebar. Tldr, I laid out a set of principles that I believe align with the Monero Community. Maybe I go a little too far by including Bitcoin and Litecoin - what do you think?
**\<xeagu>** https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/73g7aq/monero_community/
**\<bigreddmachine>** @needmultisig90 it's not even that Aeon is favored over other cryptonote coins, it's that it is favored over other coins, period. It's not part of the Monero Project, and therefore should be treated the exact same way as everything else. Bitcoin makes the sidebar because it is the first, the biggest, and there's near unanimous agreement that one of the various forms of Bitcoin is King.
**\<rehrar>** ErCiccione I don't necessarily agree with that either ;)
**\<cryptochangement>** msvb-lab: it is a lot older than most other monero/cryptonote clones, it isnt bytecoin (scammy pre-mine) and it is it maintained by smooth
**\<rehrar>** msvb-lab: it's run by Core Team member smooth, and a big overlap of community
**\<bigreddmachine>** But everything else - including Aeon - should be treated the same. If aeon makes the cut, I can think of a dozen other coins more deserving of making the cut.
**\<rehrar>** ^
**\<rehrar>** It would be a different matter if Aeon was under the Monero Project umbrella, but it's not
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** This also extends to the Monero StackExchange
**\<xeagu>** I make the claim that we decide what coins can be added to the sidebar based on their community and not necessarily technical similarities
**\<ErCiccione>** I think the most important thing now is decide the criterias of that sidebar. Make no sense to me refuse /r/aeon but leave /r/BTC
**\<ArticMine>** There has to be some kind of objective criteria
**\<ajs>** could we add Verge? ;)
**\<needmultisig90>** Pls
**\<bigreddmachine>** StackExchange had a discussion and said that cryptonote questions that are also relevant to Monero are on topic. That community made that decision.
**\<rehrar>** :D ajs
**\<needmultisig90>** No
**\<cryptochangement>** we need to get a cut of that "payed shill fund" first
**\<rehrar>** I agree with ArticMine, the first thing that needs to be done is setting an objective criteria
**\<rehrar>** then we simply compare each link on the sidebar with the criteria, if it doesn't match, it goes
**\<bigreddmachine>** The objective criteria is that it's all off topic. All other coins. An exception can be made for Bitcoin because without bitcoin we're not here, and also because Bitcoin isn't a scam. No other coins fit both criteria.
**\<xeagu>** What if the objective criteria was based on the ideological principles their community shares?
**\<bigreddmachine>** Xeagu, communities only share ideologies as long as they are small. As a community gets bigger, it diversifies. That's already evident in this community
**\<rehrar>** well, seeing as how this is an open source community, I submit that if someone has a strong opinion about this they write up their own objective criteria and submit it to the meta repo for discussion
**\<rehrar>** the different sets can be compared and one can be adopted
**\<rehrar>** I'll probably throw together a draft myself
**\<cryptochangement>** bigreddmachine: then r/btc should probably be removed since those guys are pretty much all about BCH now (which is fine, but its not the "original bitcoin")
**\<rehrar>** they would say differently :P
**\<needmultisig90>** Xmrtrader independently voted to allow aeon discussion, but I could follow the result out of this
**\<ErCiccione>** agree with rehrar.a 3d in meta is the best way
**\<needmultisig90>** Whatever gets applied to /r/monero should be uniform
**\<rehrar>** I am in favor of removing bitcoin and btc fwiw
**\<xeagu>** I am in favor of keeping /r/bitcoin and /r/aeon and also adding /r/litecoin
**\<rehrar>** I have no interest in them, and removing any and all dependency from them should be a goal, but that's just my opinion
**\<rehrar>** ok well, good discussion everyone, we're running short on time
**\<rehrar>** so we'll move on
**\<rehrar>** 9. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<bigreddmachine>** Rehrar! Aeon has always been off topic in r/Monero, and then unilaterally was made on topic by a r/Monero mod changing the sidebar. If you want to hold a vote, feel free to figure out how to do that secretly and fairly. But unless there's massive consensus among all r/Monero then it's off topic.
**\<cryptochangement>** i would say that r/Bitcoin is still relevent since its what most people all now about and bitcoin itself is still pretty important... but i dont want to get into a politcal war that will spawn Monero Cash
**\<rehrar>** The next meeting will two weeks from today on 30 September at 17:00 UTC. It will be the Saturday before the dev meetings. This meeting time seems to work out for most people.
**\<rehrar>** 10. Conclusion
**\<rehrar>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.
**\<rehrar>** Gather your things, close your briefcases, and start the after-meeting office chatter. We're done.
**\<vP11>** nice one :) thank you all
**\<vP11>** hey guys, I gotta go. thank you all for the meeting and make sure to give me your feedback here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/73gbqr/monero_brasil_news_community_hub/
**\<needmultisig90>** Good meeting
**\<vP11>** i'll be checking it tomorrow or later tonight :) have a nice weekend!
**\<cryptochangement>** good meeting all
**\<rehrar>** bigredmachine, when did I say we should vote?
**\<bigreddmachine>** Rehrar, I don't think you did. You said something about writing up proposals... So I started replying to you, then tagged on something to someone else that mentioned voting as a follow up to you.
**\<bigreddmachine>** Probably could have separated those thoughts
**\<rehrar>** ah, ok. Well the end result was very confusing for me. :P
**\<bigreddmachine>** @needmultisig90 Thanks for airing out mod concerns in public. That's not exactly cool. But now that I know there's no privacy to be expected from messaging the mods, I'll rethink how I express any concerns.
**\<needmultisig90>** I didnt realize this was a point of contention
**\<needmultisig90>** I thought the discussion of whether aeon belonged on the sidebar was extremely on topic
**\<needmultisig90>** Perhaps with censored names, I made a mistake.
**\<pero>** -\_-
**\<bigreddmachine>** But there was no need to tie my name to it is all
**\<needmultisig90>** That was a mistake, I didnt mean to step on any toes. Ill censor myself in the future.
**\<bigreddmachine>** Especially since no one ever replied to my concern to me, and now I'm being called out in public for bringing it up
**\<needmultisig90>** I thought you brought up a good point, and I was concerned no one responded
**\<needmultisig90>** But you are correct, I shouldnt have singled you out.
**\<bigreddmachine>** I appreciate your interest and concern, just please be more careful with naming people.
**\<bigreddmachine>** This issue isn't really a big deal
**\<bigreddmachine>** But the next one might be, never know
**\<parasew[m]>** hi all, sorry i could join in only now, was travelling before (msvb-lab )
**\<needmultisig90>** You're right, fwiw. Im conflicted on the issue and didnt respond due to personal bias
**\<parasew[m]>** we have been in contact with the CCC for the 34c3, i will post results as soon as there are news; we are trying a bigger setup together with bitcoin and riat assembly.
**\<parasew[m]>** in december we will have a large monero meetup in vienna, also we are happy to invite all of you, we also organised flats for people to stay in (will post on reddit and also maybe discuss in the coming community meeting)
**\<ErCiccione>** parasew[m]: hey, are you still willing to test pootle for the localization group? we really need to set it up asap
**\<parasew[m]>** ErCiccione: i already set up the pootle,
**\<parasew[m]>** ErCiccione: did not completely test it yet, thoug.
**\<parasew[m]>** ErCiccione: will be working on it tomorrow morning; are you avail tomorrow? should i send you login details to vps?
**\<ErCiccione>** parasew: ok great, it's a bit a mess for me in this days since i'm moving to another country, but i'll try to find some time tomorrow. Yes, would be great to give it a look thanks
**\<parasew[m]>** ErCiccione: ok, the basic setup is quite straight forward, config takes some time but i will see how far i come and send you details? (how, pm?)
**\<parasew[m]>** ErCiccione: detail configure i mean.
**\<ErCiccione>** ok, but don't worry too much about details, we need to know if it's 100% compatible with all our needings. if it is we can think about the configuration later
**\<ErCiccione>** also if everything is going fine i don't need to take a look now, we can do everything when is configuration time :)
**\<ErCiccione>** also, i gave the credential of 1 vps of mine to xmrscott, who wanted to give Weblate another shot. if that failed we can just focus on pootle for good
**\<parasew[m]>** ok cool, will pm you tomorrow
**\<ErCiccione>** great, thanks!

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---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-10-01
summary: Discussion of open PRs and issues, Monerujo Android wallet, MRL, Forum Funding System redesign, licensing, Monero & CCC (34C3), Purism, and miscellaneous
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*October 1st, 2017*
# Overview
An overview can be found on [MoneroBase](https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2017-10-01).
# Logs
**\<rehrar>** Here's the agenda for today: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/122
**\<endogenic>** to get you present
**\<rehrar>** 1. Greetings
**\<DaveyJones>** vtnerd it's just so people that might be interested don't miss it on a lazy sunday ^ ^
**\<vtnerd>** yeah, ok thats what I thought, so ahead of the game then
**\<parasew[m]>** hi all!
**\<rehrar>** heyo everyone!
**\<endogenic>** naturally
**\<tewinget>** I'm here-ish, but the only input I have is that the thing that's been taking up most of my time is finished now. >**\_>**
**\<msvb-lab>** Hello.
**\<serhack>** hey
**\<serhack>** Hi
**\<rehrar>** Bit of a small crowd today, but that's fine.
**\<rehrar>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<rehrar>** Anyone care to give an update?
**\<parasew[m]>** haxx0r put a ruby-library online, its at https://github.com/krtschmr/monero ( i am helping also)
**\<surae>** howdy
**\<rehrar>** I don't see tons of activity in the repos, it could be that everyone is working on super secret projects?
**\<john\_alan>** The MRL has been busy from the updates I read
**\<john\_alan>** impressive stuff
**\<john\_alan>** Any update there?
**\<moneo>** hey guys, I started developing a small monero client, and stumbled upon a problem: trying to manually fetch some jobs with the getjob method, I only get empty jobs as a respond
**\<surae>** MRL put out our 2nd quarter roadmap, Sarang and I are working in person together for the next few days. we are nearing completion on multisig paper, subaddress paper
**\<surae>** sarang has been working on a new format for the MRL bulletin
**\<moneo>** I'm querying xmrpool.net, an implementation from Snipa
**\<rehrar>** moneo: we're in a dev meeting right now man, you're welcome to join. It ends in about an hour.
**\<john\_alan>** \@surae sounds impressive, is that ruffCT multisig?
**\<serhack>** monero integrations are going well
**\<rehrar>** sarang if you need help with formatting, shoot me a message. I'm down to get involved
**\<sarang>** rehrar I'll definitely do that
**\<sarang>** It's basically down to proper author/affiliation format
**\<ferretinjapan>** rehrar, o/
**\<vtnerd>** I posted this in #monero-research-lab yesterday -\> https://gist.github.com/vtnerd/0337f7daf71b33d945a984171c478bca
**\<vtnerd>** its a utility for comparing various wallet-scanning performance improvement techniques and crypto libs
**\<moneo>** sorry rehrar, will ask later in that case.
**\<vtnerd>** it was part for mymonero stuff, part for MRL info on using curve25519
**\<surae>** vtnerd, you are absolutely awesome
**\<bigreddmachine>** moneo - try #monero-pools
**\<rehrar>** no problem moneo, thanks for understanding
**\<vtnerd>** the most interesting result is trying to get spend-public decompression into mainline - it should improve wallet performance without any crypto lib changes
**\<vtnerd>** amd64-51-30k (crypto lib not in mainline) improves by ~12%, I will know shortly how much ref10 (monero mainline) improves with this technique
**\<vtnerd>** unfortunately this would require a re-arrangement of code in src/crypto, but the changes should be easy to audit
**\<vtnerd>** (the amd64-51-30k variant requires not changes to src/crypto)
**\<surae>** what's interesting about that, is there is a non-linear trade-off in verification time and blockchain space
**\<vtnerd>** and thats probabyl the end of relevant material for this meeting ...
**\<surae>** that 12% improvement might allow us some non-trivial ring size boosts
**\<vtnerd>** well the point de-compression is separate from curve25519
**\<vtnerd>** so we could actually do both
**\<surae>** yeesh
**\<bigreddmachine>** vtnerd, I thought amd64-51-30k is built into both supercop and nacl, and that Monero uses supercop?
**\<vtnerd>** basically for every output we currently decompress (y, xbit) into -\>(x,y,z,t)
**\<vtnerd>** that only needs to be done once
**\<vtnerd>** monero does not use supercop, its all embedded. its some re-arranged version of ref10 from supercop
**\<bigreddmachine>** ahhh okay.
**\<bigreddmachine>** so it selected pieces from supercop. makes sense.
**\<vtnerd>** I have a PR which uses two amd64 variants from supercop with minimal changes (to work with position independent binaries)
**\<vtnerd>** fluffypony created a separate repo for this to track changes to the crypto separate from our usage
**\<bigreddmachine>** i see, thanks.
**\<vtnerd>** so that PR needs updating to reflect that, plus this benchmark utility (with the curve25519 removed) will get rolled into that so users can determine which is faster on their machine easily
**\<vtnerd>** oh! and curve25519 has neon implementations for arm ... so theres that too! probably just for hyc though haha
**\<msvb-lab>** vtner: We're interested in MCU hardware implementations of dh25519 and curve25519 in case you come across any.
**\<msvb-lab>** Fat chance though.
**\<rehrar>** Thanks vtnerd! Anyone else have anything to report of the last couple of weeks?
**\<sarang>** I put out my monthly report (less of a dev thing, more of a research update), and plan to post the subaddress paper today w/ surae once we have the formatting all purdy
**\<sarang>** Also researching new developments in aggregate signatures
**\<surae>** oh, sarang and I are experiencing trouble with the forums still
**\<bigreddmachine>** Not something I did, but the Monerujo Android Wallet left beta. Anyone know if anyone's audited the codebase?
**\<sarang>** Yes, true. After posting a comment to my original FFS post, it no longer works
**\<surae>** makes it hard for funding posts, etc... and we were hoping that MRL could get a suite of e-mail addresses or something
**\<endogenic>** hm i wonder if it's related to what just happened
**\<parasew[m]>** surae: sarang - why not post to MRL github and then link it in /r/monero for now?
**\<sarang>** I put the direct text into r/monero just now due to the FFS failure
**\<parasew[m]>** the good thing about putting it into the github would be that people can subscribe and get research updates
**\<sarang>** That's a good point
**\<sarang>** surae ran his in r/monero in the same way
**\<parasew[m]>** also there was a forum-update (or remake) planned, no?
**\<rehrar>** Forum to be scrapped
**\<rehrar>** FFS is going to be integrated into the site proper
**\<rehrar>** you can get a preview at getmonero.org/forum-funding-system for how it's going to look
**\<surae>** ok, we'll just keep pestering rehrar behidn the scenes
**\<rehrar>** Serhack and I will be looking at getting that finished up hopefully in the next month
**\<parasew[m]>** although it's technically not 'forum funding' anymore :)
**\<rehrar>** Forum still works I think, based off the definition
**\<msvb-lab>** Was down for a bit this week wasn't it?
**\<sarang>** rehrar that new update looks extremely legit
**\<serhack>** rehrar yeah!
**\<parasew[m]>** austria monero workgroup can also help w site updates (@serhack, @rehrar)
**\<sarang>** I just creamed my design pants looking at it =p
**\<serhack>** great parasew[m]
**\<rehrar>** I'll contact you parasew[m]
**\<serhack>** I come to austria every year
**\<sarang>** Maybe rename it something like "community funding system" to stress the group nature of it
**\<rehrar>** Alright, can we move on to the next point? It may not take super long because of the absences, but we'll see. We'
**\<parasew[m]>** sarang: very good idea imho, also points more to community efforts
**\<rehrar>** Oops.
**\<ArticMine>** I have an item https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/85
**\<ArticMine>** Project licensing. This needs input from devs and the community
**\<parasew[m]>** wow, this is a rather huge topic
**\<ArticMine>** It is about informing So the conversation can take place in GitHub
**\<rehrar>** Thanks ArticMine. Super important for sure.
**\<sarang>** fluffypony brings up a good point about relicensing and the work it takes to contact contributors
**\<ArticMine>** That is one of the issues
**\<moneromooo>** There is no relicensing AFAIK.
**\<moneromooo>** LMDB itself is relicensing. Not monero.
**\<ArticMine>** But it impact Monero
**\<moneromooo>** And monero can use the same licence as it used before.
**\<rehrar>** Right, so the conversation has since turned into a couple different questions:
**\<rehrar>** 1. Should Monero relicense to a dual license?
**\<rehrar>** 2. Should Monero have dependencies that are not completely permissive
**\<sarang>** ah ok
**\<rehrar>** as is my understanding anyway
**\<moneromooo>** 2 is leading.
**\<sarang>** So the LMDB switch would not require contacting contribs?
**\<ArticMine>** It is more complex than that, if the dependencies affect consensus code
**\<rehrar>** ah yes. Good clarification ArticMine. Sorry about that.
**\<ArticMine>** This is a critcal part of smooth's concerns
**\<ArticMine>** Way to complex to deal with here
**\<rehrar>** Right, so give it a read if you haven't already and make your opinion known. :)
**\<rehrar>** Let's move on to: Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<ArticMine>** exactly
**\<rehrar>** Again, with not so many people around, this may not be a huge topic of discussion, but it's there if someone wants to discuss something.
**\<rehrar>** No? Alright. Then we can move on to the next point: Purism integration
**\<rehrar>** This is something that's happened recently that's very exciting that I wanted to share with you all and get dev opinions on.
**\<rehrar>** for those who don't know, https://puri.sm is a company that sells open source laptops (hardware and software) and is currently doing a crowdfunding campaign for mobile phones also
**\<rehrar>** a member of the Reddit community contacted them asking if they would accept Monero for their goods (they accept BTC now)
**\<rehrar>** and they were pretty enthusiastic about the idea. I followed up with them, and spoke with the founder and CEO, Todd, and had a video conference with him
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Awesome!
**\<rehrar>** he is not only interested in accepting Monero for their laptops and phones, but also integrating Monero into their Debian based operating system (PureOS) by default
**\<endogenic>** nice
**\<rehrar>** we spoke at length about different cryptos, and he believes that Monero aligns the closest with Purism beliefs of digital privacy rights
**\<parasew[m]>** very nice!
**\<rehrar>** He also says that many of his devs also push to Debian, so he had discussed with me that if they integate Monero into PureOS, they would see about trying to push into Debian as well
**\<ArticMine>** This is excellent. The one thing to watch is that Monero as a software dependency can become stale real fast
**\<ArticMine>** So we have to work very closely with out downstream on this
**\<endogenic>** that's a great point
**\<ferretinjapan>** sweet!
**\<rehrar>** Yes, I've spoken with ArticMine about these things, and have since emailed Todd about the concerns. Waiting to hear back from him.
**\<rehrar>** Sometime soon he is hoping to make a Purism press release about the Monero integration. I'll be helping with that, so be looking out for it.
**\<rehrar>** It would be helpful from anyone in the community with PureOS to test the Monero GUI on it and see if there's any issues.
**\<rehrar>** https://pureos.net/
**\<ArticMine>** Unfortunately I have to leave early today
**\<sarang>** This is a great development
**\<rehrar>** Bye ArticMine! Thanks.
**\<bigreddmachine>** rehrar, i'll try to spin up a VM with pureos this week and let you know how it goes.
**\<rehrar>** Thanks bigreddmachine!
**\<rehrar>** Their mobile offering is still more than half a year away (it's being crowdfunded right now)
**\<rehrar>** but atm our GUI is (As far as I understand it) functional on mobile phones, but not optimized for it.
**\<rehrar>** But that's for Android, right?
**\<rehrar>** (their phones will also have PureOS)
**\<moneromooo>** That answers why they didn't use Qubes...
**\<rehrar>** Qubes is 'partnered' with them and guaranteed to work on their systems
**\<rehrar>** https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2015/12/09/purism-partnership/
**\<unknownids>** if you order from them you can choose a USB with qubes on it
**\<rehrar>** well, one of their systems anyways
**\<timothy>** qubes is "strange"
**\<timothy>** it stil uses xen
**\<rehrar>** Well, that's all from me about that. If anyone has any other things to say about it, we can discuss it after. Let's wrap up. :)
**\<rehrar>** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<rehrar>** I'll leave this open for a couple of minutes.
**\<bigreddmachine>** anyone know how many eyes have looked at monerujo? wondering if it's been audited or anything, as I've seen people start recommending it
**\<moneromooo>** Probably an even number.
**\<parasew[m]>** just as a final note: 2 events in december - "Monero Month" in Vienna with the preparations of ccc and monero meetup, monero vienna workgroup ( seperately discussed in #monero-ccc )
**\<bigreddmachine>** :)
**\<parasew[m]>** and CCC itself: we need a prototype programm for the 34C3, planned is to create a joint larger meta-assemby with bitcoin-assembly and riat-assembly.
**\<parasew[m]>** if anyone cares to help plan, etc. also in #monero-ccc
**\<moneromooo>** If anyone want to test the multisig stuff, feel free. It's about a half dozen PRs from the earliest one on github.
**\<moneromooo>** Or review.
**\<msvb-lab>** bigreddmachine: Monerujo is available on the Google Play Store, since this week I think.
**\<bigreddmachine>** msvb-lab, yes, I know
**\<msvb-lab>** That's probably why you're asking. I have the same curiosity in any case.
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** Can we have all the IRC channels relayed to Mattermost? Only a handful are
**\<rehrar>** What other channels do you want?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** \<rehrar> But that's for Android, right? \<= iOS too and we can probably make it work with other operating systems.
**\<rehrar>** Awesome dEBRUYNE! Thanks. :)
**\<rehrar>** Alright we need to wrap up.
**\<rehrar>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<sgp>** @rehrar I made a list on Taiga. Can't remember on the top of my head
**\<rehrar>** October 15th, same time?
**\<rehrar>** ok, thanks sgp
**\<rehrar>** Ok. That's it guys. Thanks so much! :) Have a good weekend. No Kovri meeting (they're moving to Fridays)

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2017-10-06
summary: Brief review of what has been completed since last meeting, contributor FFS check-in / status, and code & open tickets discussion
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*October 6th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<anonimal>** 1. Greetings
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<anonimal>** 4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<anonimal>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** Hello
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Hi
**\<ArticMine>** Hi
**\<ajs>** Yo
**\<anonimal>** ping rehrar
**\<rehrar>** Yeah I'm here. Sorry.
**\<rehrar>** Finishing something up with wife. Done in 2.
**\<anonimal>** 2 what?
**\<rehrar>** Min. Sorry.
**\<rehrar>** Ok. You have 100% rehrar now.
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<anonimal>** For me, in addition to the usual project work + review/collab, testnet development and a big chunk of time spent toward a complete NTCP rewrite
**\<anonimal>** We last met on the 24th, that week was productive, last week was a very productive 60 hour week, this week was very unproductive.
**\<anonimal>** (for me)
**\<anonimal>** Sunday's Vegas shooting has kept me pre-occupied as well as finally getting to long-standing non-kovri personal tech things resolved.
**\<rehrar>** I can bump docs by myself, finished the Spanish translation. First draft of Russian translation should be done tomorrow. Started new website construction. Obtained svgs of Kovri logo from FP (should I push them anywhere?) and worked on the press kit.
**\<rehrar>** Oh, I'm all set up for Kovri twitter now also, and can ask a few questions regarding that later this meeting.
**\<anonimal>** Yes, meta repo like we discussed. If they go on the site then kovri-site.
**\<anonimal>** Anything else for point 2.?
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** hi everybody
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Not much for me, i understand better some of the weird ssu numbers that i had, but still need more debugging
**\<anonimal>** Ok
**\<anonimal>** There's been a lot of new French translation work, collab between woodyjon and MoroccanMalinois. rehrar will you summarize any other team translation work?
**\<rehrar>** Sure.
**\<rehrar>** So the translation efforts have been, at least from my end, focused on the BTC Manager article that they put out about Kovri. We agreed it's a really good Kovri intro and we can point noobs to Kovri there for them to understand more about the project.
**\<rehrar>** I'm taking on Spanish and Russian, and I think I found a Dutch guy who is interested in translating.
**\<anonimal>** Ok, great
**\<rehrar>** On another front, we are also receive awesome help from woodyjon with the French translation of the site.
**\<rehrar>** I will start doc Russian translation also
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** @rehrar i'm gonna make the italian translation of the article as soon as i get my stuff back (moving home)
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: Yes, I just mentioned woodyjon. He's also working on the few bits in kovri-site?
**\<anonimal>** erciccione\_[m]: great
**\<rehrar>** There was a second article featuring anonimal from BTC Manager a bit ago, and anyone is free to translate it. There is a repo set up at https://GitHub.com/rehrar/monero-translations
**\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<rehrar>** Yeah. Woodyjon is making quick work of the site.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Nothing new for me
**\<anonimal>** I'm chugging along.
**\<rehrar>** Majority hours are going to Monero right now. Planned on finished cranking out a huge chunk of Kovri hours for Monero in the next two days.
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: are you don't with your last milestone? I've lost track of how many meetings you've said you'd be done with it by now so I'm starting to get a little concerned. I know at least more than 3 meetings.
**\<anonimal>** Is everything ok?
**\<anonimal>** \*done
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** unexpected professional obligations ... i prefer to submit what i already have before asking for a milestone, but it requires more debugging ...
**\<anonimal>** Ok, but *if* you've put in the hours already then I think you should get the payout.
**\<anonimal>** Otherwise people are wondering what you're doing (it's been at least 2 months since last milestone completion and no further info in the forum thread).
**\<anonimal>** Does that sound fair?
**\<ArticMine>** Maye an informal update?
**\<ArticMine>** Maybe
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Sounds fair, will publish something soon
**\<anonimal>** Ok, sounds good.
**\* anonimal** hopes your unexpected obligations go smoothly
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** me too :)
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on point 3 FFS check-in?
**\<anonimal>** 4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** One thing that wasn't mentioned in the brief review was selsta's contributions and ongoing work. We now have colored logging to console and, last I heard, selsta is working on kovri-util cpuid functionality.
**\* anonimal** checks issue trackers for point 4
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** One question: on testnet floodfill instances keeps indefinitely trying to build a session with themselves since they are in the reseed zip (hence number of SessionRequest that keeps increasing), should we try to skip building this session based on IP comparison ?
**\<anonimal>** I take it you've somehow implementing something which allows only a specific number of floodfills to be created rather than every RI?
**\<anonimal>** Or is every router still --floodfill?
**\<selsta>** anonimal: yes cpuid is my next project. although I haven’t started yet as uni is quite challenging :/
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** nope, that's what happens with current testnet (for my tests, i disable ntcp)
**\<anonimal>** selsta: good to hear :)
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: that's a good question, I'll have to look at the code and get back to you after the meeting.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** k thanks
**\<anonimal>** meta/#118 is still open, I haven't heard a chirp from pigeons in a while. pigeons is this an easy fix?
**\* anonimal** still can't connect that machine
**\<anonimal>** meta/#77 still hasn't been resolved, I know we talked about it with fluffypony many meetings ago.
**\<anonimal>** Any last thoughts on meta/#113?
**\<i2p-relay> {-fluffypony}** \<- on vacation still
**\<rehrar>** #12 too no?
**\<anonimal>** Ooo vacation, nice :)
**\<rehrar>** Have a good life fluffypony
**\<i2p-relay> {-fluffypony}** lol
**\<rehrar>** When do you return?
**\<anonimal>** ArticMine erciccione\_[m] rehrar last thoughts on meta/#113?
**\<anonimal>** Can it be closed now?
**\<rehrar>** Nothing further to add. I can close it unless anyone else has anything more.
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** nothing from me
**\<rehrar>** Going once.
**\<anonimal>** serhack started? work on kovri-site/#4, how's that coming along serhack?
**\<rehrar>** Twice?
**\<rehrar>** Closed
**\<serhack>** hey!
**\<serhack>** I'm waiting for rehrar :slightly_smiling_face:
**\<ArticMine>** Ok
**\<rehrar>** Oh?
**\<serhack>** :) in order to design the page :
**\<anonimal>** Ok. Yes, that will require some collab between you two.
**\<i2p-relay> {-fluffypony}** rehrar: Oct 15
**\<anonimal>** Any questions about kovri-site/#4, rehrar?
**\<rehrar>** Not super sure what all this is, or what is required of me.
**\<rehrar>** I know it's been an ongoing conversation for a while. Do we just need to print Serhack stuff on the page?
**\<serhack>** okay, let's explain to rehrar
**\<serhack>** yes rehrar
**\<rehrar>** Ok, then that shouldn't be an issue. On every page of Kovri site?
**\<anonimal>** ...
**\<anonimal>** No, let's talk more after the meeting.
**\<serhack>** :( no
**\<serhack>** don't be worried
**\<rehrar>** Sure thing. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
**\<anonimal>** re: meta/#87, more people should get involved with meta/#87 so we can wrap it up.
**\<anonimal>** Should something go on reddit?
**\<rehrar>** I'll post right after this meeting.
**\<rehrar>** If that's what we decide.
**\<rehrar>** There's a lot of big discussions going on right now, like the project relicensing issue, as well.
**\<rehrar>** ArticMine, would you mind looking at that PR?
**\<rehrar>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/pull/87
**\<ArticMine>** I'll take at look at #87
**\<rehrar>** Thanks!
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: kovri-site/#3, did a draft ever come up for a quickstart?
**\<anonimal>** re-introducing a simple quickstart section to the readme is trivial but I don't think you had that in mind?
**\<rehrar>** Kovri site #3 is changing the link color
**\<anonimal>** We're running out of time, let's talk more later.
**\<rehrar>** Ok.
**\<anonimal>** s/kovri-site/kovri-docs/
**\<anonimal>** oops
**\<rehrar>** Ok. We'll talk more.
**\<anonimal>** One last thing, the first Monero Coffee Chat is tomorrow https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/123
**\<anonimal>** sgp I won't be able to make it but surely sometime in the future I can hop on the call.
**\<serhack>** great
**\<anonimal>** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<rehrar>** Nothing that can't be discussed later.
**\<anonimal>** ^
**\<anonimal>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** Does 20:00 work for everyone?
**\<anonimal>** Or is 18:00 the best for everyone?
**\<rehrar>** 20 should be fine.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** both ok for me
**\<ArticMine>** 1800 is better for me
**\<erciccione\_[m]>** both good for me
**\<ArticMine>** but I can do 2000 if we keep it there
**\<serhack>** 2000 is the perfect time
**\<ArticMine>** That is on Fridays
**\<ArticMine>** So we make it 2000 on every second Firday?
**\<anonimal>** If that works for you.
**\<ArticMine>** Friday
**\<ArticMine>** Yes that works
**\<rehrar>** Serhack explained to me. It'll be done before the end of the day.
**\<serhack>** in italy it's the end of the day
**\<serhack>** but I will work on it asap
**\<anonimal>** Ok thanks everyone. Please anyone speakup/complain if the new dates and times aren't working out.
**\<anonimal>** Next meeting Oct. 20th, 20:00 UTC.