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Add community meeting logs from 2019-11-23 to 2020-06-06.
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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2019-11-23
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** Meeting time
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<needmonero90\>** Hi diego
**\<sgp\_\>** Welcome to the Emergency Response Process and Compromised Binaries Post-Mortem Meeting. Today, we shall discuss the information we know so far about the compromised binaries and introduce ideas to better respond to emergencies in the future.
**\<sgp\_\>** It’s later than most of our meetings, so thank you for coming at this unusual time.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<needmonero90\>** Hello!
**\<M5M400\>** Servus!
**\<rehrar\>** h'lo
**\<binaryFate\>** hi
**\<pizzaburger\>** Good day!
**\<anhdres2\>** hola!
**\<mrpublic\>** top o the mornin'
**\<intj440\>** Hello
**\<needmonero90\>** Is the fluffiest pony here this evening?
**\<sgp\_\>** Welcome everyone! There is a lot to cover, so let's move methodically so that we can respect those staying up late
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/413
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Website compromised facts and review
**\<el00ruobuob\_[m]\>** Hi
**\<ArticMine\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** long set of text incoming describing the situation, including new information
**\<almutasim\>** Hello.
**\<sgp\_\>** Here is a short timeline of the events that unfolded earlier this week:
**\<sgp\_\>** Relevant blog post: https://getmonero.org/2019/11/19/warning-compromised-binaries.html
**\<sgp\_\>** The CLI binaries were compromised for approximately 35 minutes on Monday
**\<sgp\_\>** The attackers did not modify the hashes on the website
**\<needmonero90\>** Is that time frame known for certain?
**\<sgp\_\>** Core team member binaryFate created a Reddit post and messaged me about it on IRC. He shared it on his personal Twitter account
**\<needmonero90\>** Did the logs get pulled?
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: I will cover the exact time frame near the end of this wall :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Mmk
**\<sgp\_\>** Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/dyfozs/security\_warning\_cli\_binaries\_available\_on/
— needmonero90 waits patiently
**\<sgp\_\>** I found it likely that this was true given binaryFate’s position and that it was shared on three different mediums. Thus, I immediately sent Blockfolio, CoinGecko, and Delta notifications. I created a tweet from the Monero Twitter account
**\<sgp\_\>** Note that although I have partial access to the Monero Twitter account, I am not the primary owner or maintainer of it, and the tweet I created was an exception for the circumstances
**\<sgp\_\>** I also contacted the other moderators of r/CryptoCurrency, who agreed to allow an announcement about the situation in r/CryptoCurrency
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione authored an announcement on the website about 14 hours after the incident was initially reported. An email to the Monero-announce mailing list went out around the same time.
**\<sgp\_\>** Approximately 12 hours after the sending the Blockfolio notification, it had 14,673 impressions and 259 clicks. Today, it has 25,308 impressions and 326 clicks. I don't have numbers for the other portfolio platforms.
**\<sgp\_\>** The Reddit thread has nearly 300 upvotes and nearly 300 comments.
**\<sgp\_\>** Twitter reports that the initial tweet has 100,918 impressions and 1,455 engagements.
**\<sgp\_\>** Major and minor news sites picked up on the story, including Naked Security, Crypto Briefing, The Next Web, Ars Technica, ZDNet, CoinGeek, Fossbytes, CoinTelegraph, Bleeping Computer, AMBCrypto, Bitcoinist, Coingape, Finder, and Decrypt.
**\<sgp\_\>** There are a few writeups on the content of the malware:
**\<sgp\_\>** Bartblaze: https://bartblaze.blogspot.com/2019/11/monero-project-compromised.html
**\<sgp\_\>** serhack: https://serhack.me/articles/cli-binaries-compromised-monero-analysis/
**\<sgp\_\>** They both determined that the malware was a simple coin stealer. KnifeOfPi also came to the same determination.
**\<sgp\_\>** Now, on to the website information.
**\<sgp\_\>** I can answer a few more questions than I could before, but I can’t answer everything yet, including how the website was compromised. I have no insider info there
**\<sgp\_\>** Security professionals have been working to learn more information. The security team has promised their post-mortem when they have more details.
**\<sgp\_\>** The downloads are served by two sources: the CDN and the source. The CDN binaries were not affected, which are the preferred sources. The source is fallback.
**\<sgp\_\>** After the hack, the security admins temporarily turned logging on with the DR download box (which was switched to) in case someone was trying to hack it. A benefit of this is that we learned there are typically fewer than 10 wallet downloads per hour from the direct source.
**\<sgp\_\>** I can also confirm that 35 minutes is the \*maximum\* time that the malicious binaries were served. The file integrity monitor (FIM) was killed 35 minutes before fluffypony initiated the failover to the backup DR box. If the attackers replaced the files immediately after, then the website was compromised for 35 minutes.
**\<sgp\_\>** Full timeline:
**\<sgp\_\>** The FIM’s last log entry was at 16:04 UTC (10:04 CST) - malicious binaries were not served before this point
**\<sgp\_\>** A Github issue was created at 16:21 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** A community member privately informed site admins at 16:30 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** fluffypony switched to the failover at 16:40 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** The maximum compromised time was between 16:04 UTC and 16:40 UTC Monday November 18
**\<sgp\_\>** Since they were served for only 35 minutes, it’s highly likely that fewer than 10 malicious downloads were served. Among these, some were presumably updating their nodes, not running wallets.
**\<sgp\_\>** and that brings us to the end of the wall of text
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have questions or comments on what happened? I won’t be able to answer some of them unfortunately but I’ll do my best.
**\<M5M400\>** one question comes to mind: HOW?
**\<needmonero90\>** The security researchers are dealing with the box atm
**\<needmonero90\>** We'll probably only know after their analysis
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: that's an important question that I don't really have the answer to
**\<sgp\_\>** But I am certain that a dedicated team is digging through the boxes
**\<DarkDotFail\>** Hi Justin - What does "DR" stand for?
**\<M5M400\>** disaster recovery
**\<needmonero90\>** Disaster Recovery
**\<DarkDotFail\>** "it’s highly likely that fewer than 10 malicious downloads were served" - I assume this is based on logs? How confident are you in this count?
**\<sgp\_\>** I find it remarkable that two independent community members reported on the issue within 30 minutes
**\<M5M400\>** when did fluffy upload the original files? ie, how long did it take them from upload to replacment?
**\<Supportoi\>** Sio
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: unless there was a significant anomaly (3+ sd downloads over that period), then I am very confident. So I'd say \>95% confident
**\<Supportoi\>** Any news?
**\<HungryForAvo420\>** Are there any plans to periodically check sha256 hashes?
**\<sgp\_\>** There are almost never more than 10 downloads/hr. And it was compromised for 35 minutes
**\<DarkDotFail\>** Who has server access, and what is the process for giving someone server access?
**\<Supportoi\>** I read about hacking this is Russian hackers
**\<sgp\_\>** Supportoi: there is no evidence I know of that suggests this
**\<anhdres\>** is it my non-techie impression or we got very lucky here? I mean we only realized it because someone that downloaded the CLI checked the hashes AND they didn't change the hashes accordingly
**\<Supportoi\>** I downloaded this fkng cli
**\<needmonero90\>** Changing the hashes would have required compromising a second box
**\<Supportoi\>** I'm not infected?
**\<Supportoi\>** My money not stolen
**\<sgp\_\>** Supportoi: when did you download the cli exactly?
**\<Supportoi\>** But I worry about my PC
**\<anhdres\>** needmonero90, ok
**\<Supportoi\>** 18th
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: I do not have a full list
**\<sgp\_\>** Supportoi: what time and what time zone?
**\<DarkDotFail\>** and regarding the process of granting access, how is it determined who should have access?
**\<needmonero90\>** As few people as is realistically possible
**\<Supportoi\>** SHA is eq to SHA of infected files
**\<almutasim\>** It's really good that changing the hashes requires hacking a second box.
**\<rehrar\>** DarkDotFail Tari or Globee hosts the getmonero infrastructure
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Supportoi: Verify your hashes, that will conclusively tell you if it's the nalicious binary
**\<rehrar\>** the details would have to be asked of them
**\<anhdres\>** is there a way to have a bot somewhere else doing just what the human user did by chance? I mean downlaoding the files regularly and checking the hashes to see they match, and if they don't issue an alarm?
**\<DarkDotFail\>** anhdres: I am working on precisely that :)
**\<sgp\_\>** anhdres: while technically possible, this service would probably be blocked as a DoS attack
**\<needmonero90\>** That would be a tiny DOS on the server, and if done with a consistent IP, it's possible to serve uninfected binaries to the pollers
**\<Supportoi\>** Fkng Russian hackers
**\<anhdres\>** mmmm...
**\<sgp\_\>** there are a stupid number of people who constantly are trying to download the 55GB blockchain.raw
**\<M5M400\>** when did fluffy upload the original files? ie, how long did it take them from original upload to replacment with compromised bins?
**\<needmonero90\>** Supportoi: please keep on topic, speculation on who did this is unwarranted at the moment.
**\<needmonero90\>** We will know more after the post mortem
**\<Supportoi\>** I reading news and founded article about some hacking russian forum
**\<DarkDotFail\>** sgp\_: Is there any indication yet that the server was compromised, and how?
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: are you referring to the time between the 0.15 safe binary uploads and them being compromised?
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: yes
**\<Supportoi\>** Where they have article about monero hacking
**\<binaryFate\>** M5M400 the malicious binaires were compiled from sources, they are not obtained based on the original ones. So it's indepedendant from original upload time.
**\<Supportoi\>** Russian hackerssssssss omg
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: yes, I can state that the website WAS compromised, though I do not yet have details on how
**\<anhdres\>** good thing it wasn't the GUI, because those would have been less technical users and therefore less probable they checked the hashes. We need a fool-proof official tutorial to teach how to check them.
**\<needmonero90\>** Supportoi: last warning.
**\<DarkDotFail\>** sgp\_: Has law enforcement been notified about this breach?
**\<pizzaburger\>** Is there a possibility that the attackers were after something else and we just haven't noticed their ulterior motives?
**\<PewPewPewPew\>** ^^
**\<M5M400\>** binaryFate: trying to gauge how premeditated this attack was... ie if they had everything ready and possibly already access to the box for a while, just waiting for new bins to be uploaded and then quickly replacing them...
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: no, and we have not yet found a strong reason to. I will make a recommendation that the security researchers do (in addition to their own assessments) if there's a clear reason to. I do not have knowledge on the state of the investigation to make a recommendation
**\<HungryForAvo420\>** What is the decommission schedule for source box? CDN was not impacted, but am wondering what the maintanance is like for Source.
**\<needmonero90\>** I would like to point out that the attack felt rushed/incomplete, from reports I'm hearing. There were many things that could have been done that weren't (infecting the GUI dls for example)
**\<sgp\_\>** pizzaburger: while we can never know for sure what their motivations were, we know the security researchers only found a relatively primitive coin stealer included in the wallet software
**\<Supportoi\>** I'm worry about my privacy. I'm not programmer but I know some in programming and security. My antivirus not detected danger, I runned this file.
**\<DarkDotFail\>** How long has FIM been installed, and has it ever detected other anomalies?
**\<Supportoi\>** And I readed about this forum. This forum contains information about CLI replace
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: I do not know for how long, but FIM was disabled by the attacker
**\<Supportoi\>** Somebody know some about this?
**\<DarkDotFail\>** Has FIM ever detected other anomalies?
**\<needmonero90\>** Supportoi: this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Please stay in topic for the meeting.
**\<PlasmaPower\>** I know you don't know how it was compromised yet, but what were the potential avenues of attack for the box other than an insider threat? The web server, maybe SSH, maybe a cloud provider?
**\<M5M400\>** needmonero90: that's my gut feeling aswell. that's why I was asking how long it took them to replace the bins after initial upload... but I don't seem to get an answer :)
**\<sgp\_\>** DarkDotFail: I do not know about the test environment in which it was tested, but I know there were no other anomalies on the live version of the site
**\<DarkDotFail\>** Thank you. that's very good.
**\<Supportoi\>** I payed 50$ in xmr to body from comments and they gived me screenshot
\* Supportoi was kicked by needmonero90 (Supportoi)
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: I don't know when the original 0.15 binaries were uploaded, but that's something we can check on I suppose
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other questions? Sorry to not have juicy details yet on how this happened
**\<binaryFate\>** this reddit post suggest the 9th: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/dtt2j3/cli\_v01500\_carbon\_chamaeleon\_released/
**\<DarkDotFail\>** I want to quickly commend Justin and team for the quick response. My complaint is that the public website took over 14 hours to update after the breach, and I suggest we get a quicker "post an alert to the website" process in place. Going AFK for now, but be safe everyone.
**\<M5M400\>** binaryFate: that would speak for the less premeditated "uh, new release. let's try to hack that box and replace with our coinstealer" theory
**\<rehrar\>** honestly, the timing of this seems too good for it to not be premeditated
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** binaryFate: Also semi-verified going off of WebArchive for getmonero
**\<needmonero90\>** Processes are being put in place to expedite updates of the public site in the event of a security event. 14 hours was excessive, but we can do better.
**\<ZaiRoX\>** Strange of them not waiting for the GUI release though
**\<M5M400\>** rehrar: why wait 5 days then?
**\<rehrar\>** honestly, who updates CLI early? Exchanges. Services.
**\<rehrar\>** I think they were hoping for big fish.
**\<binaryFate\>** Agree website update has the largest room for improvement.
**\<M5M400\>** rehrar: agreed.
**\<anhdres\>** would a stupid but useful security measure to suggest to newbie users for them to wait a few hours before running a downloaded binary and see if there's any warning on an official channel?
**\<needmonero90\>** Hash checking should be sufficient
**\<needmonero90\>** And signature ofc
**\<sarang\>** With signature verification you know the file is what it is expected to be
**\<rehrar\>** M5M400 you asked why wait 5 days after the new CLI was released?
**\<needmonero90\>** I think prioritizing teaching people how to verify signatures is infinitely better than having them wait for a few hours and hope someone notices
**\<rehrar\>** because if you release ASAP, everyone is downloading and testing. They will catch it right away.
**\<needmonero90\>** That's just me tho
**\<sgp\_\>** they also compromised the website at a relatively convenient time
**\<M5M400\>** rehrar: makes sense
**\<sgp\_\>** time of day
**\<PlasmaPower\>** frankly, even Monero's "beginner" guide to signature verification on Windows is way too long
**\<anhdres\>** ok, and based on that "hacking" the hash to match the compromised binary would be too difficult to pull of, right?
**\<M5M400\>** rehrar: good thing the "big fish" are usually the laziest in updating, I guess...
**\<rehrar\>** PlasmaPower I just spoke about this with another individual that does website stuff.
**\<sgp\_\>** anhdres: it's more realistic to check the hashes haven't changed
**\<rehrar\>** We need to separate verification user guides into three. Linux, Mac, and Windows.
**\<rehrar\>** They won't be so long or scary then.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: good, that's a specific action item
**\<rehrar\>** I was literally helping a person on Telegram and told him to verify hashes and he got scared by how big the page was and how much CLI commands there were
**\<anhdres\>** sgp\_, needmonero90 : got it thanks
**\<pizzaburger\>** Thank you for the information and hard work. Best of luck to the Monero team, bye!
**\<PlasmaPower\>** rehrar: the Windows specific guide is still long, though not scary except the small part that requires command prompt
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** FWIW with respect to timing, domain was bought 11/14. Arguments could be made that a purchase so close to delivering the attack means it wasn't pre-meditated, but best to wait for the official report
**\<M5M400\>** xmrscott[m]: ah, I forgot about that domain info. makes perfectly sense
**\<justalurk3r\>** sgp\_: I, too, have downloaded the compromised binaries. If my browser history is right, then it must have happened at 12:24 CET
**\<anhdres\>** would it be too cumbersome to develop a little monero-branded, hash-checking program for windows that required no installation so a very noob could use it practically guide-less?
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: any info which hosting company the infected box belongs to?
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: I don't know that
**\<PlasmaPower\>** anhdres: I thought about that too, but then what if that binary gets compromised :P
**\<needmonero90\>** Andrhes: and if they compromise that?
**\<needmonero90\>** Jinx
**\<anhdres\>** well, it needs to be in a third box
**\<sgp\_\>** the malicious software would just say "I'm totally safe"
**\<needmonero90\>** 🤔
**\<cbster\>** Yeah, were it too simple I think they'd just change that program too
**\<anhdres\>** if screwing with the hash is "safe" we could do the same with the app
**\<sarang\>** The only guarantee is a full hash and signature check
**\<needmonero90\>** ^
**\<sarang\>** Only doing hash checks is potentially vulnerable
**\<cbster\>** Agreed, a lot of people leave off the signature check
**\<sarang\>** It's annoying but important
**\<tevador\>** one positive aspect of this incident is that people are more likely to verify the hashes from now on
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: is there any intersection in the groups of people who research the breach and the group who had access to the box?
**\<rehrar\>** honestly, the entire cryptography space is long overdue for a good UX GUI for hash checking and verification
**\<rehrar\>** one that could be used for all of the programs ever
**\<needmonero90\>** Pgp is pretty good
**\<anhdres\>** rehrar: yes, please
**\<needmonero90\>** ...not
**\<sarang\>** However if you're confident that externally hosted trusted hash lists have not been modified, then a hash check is ok
**\<PlasmaPower\>** Are GitHub release assets generally deemed safer than the website downloads? I don't think they're GPG signed (though the tags themselves can be).
**\<sgp\_\>** PlasmaPower: it's simpler to hack a Github account probably
**\<HungryForAvo420\>** Any consideration in using GitLab? have seen MS owned github drop some repos in some countries
**\<pca\>** Just arrived. How was the box compromised, or does anybody know that information yet?
**\<tevador\>** are we signing git tags?
**\<sgp\_\>** HungryForAvo420: Monero already partially uses Gitlab, but this is mostly irrelevant for the conversation at hand
**\<M5M400\>** pca: not yet
**\<sgp\_\>** For the sake of time, I'm going to warp up this section soon. Most of these questions have been answered in Reddit
**\<rehrar\>** kthanksbai
**\<PlasmaPower\>** tevador: I just checked, yes at least the latest tag was signed and most commits seem to be signed too.
**\<needmonero90\>** Thanks for hosting sgp\_
**\<sgp\_\>** just this section lol
**\<sgp\_\>** still have a few more
**\<needmonero90\>** Oh rip
**\<sgp\_\>** that was just the update and clarification portion
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** I was going to, still plenty left to discuss nm90 ;)
**\<sgp\_\>** now time to do actual work
— needmonero90 nods sheepishly
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. Introduction of emergency procedure
**\<M5M400\>** ah, the big red button
**\<sgp\_\>** I would like to introduce a project to draft more formalized emergency procedures. This procedure will help the community understand what to do if another emergency occurs.
**\<anhdres2\>** haha everybody was "ok good one see ya" and Justin still had the cake untouched
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/412
**\<sgp\_\>** We can pull from existing resources, including the Monero Vulnerability Response Process and the Monero Malware Response Workgroup.
**\<sgp\_\>** I know that the Monero community has significant concerns about centralization, and these are justified and should be considered carefully. Nevertheless, there are many was that this process can help organize a proper response without having many centralization advantages. And to be clear, it’s not like we can force people to follow a set procedure anyway. All participants’ involvement is entirely voluntary
**\<sgp\_\>** and subject to their own best judgments.
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm currently breaking the procedure into main topic areas: a) safe verification of the emergency, b) classification of the severity, c) communication, d) incident response, e) regular tests/audits, and f) responsible roles, including alternates in case of inactivity.
**\<sgp\_\>** Let’s open discussion on the 6 points that I have above, one at a time. We can talk about what processes (even if informal) we already have, and what you think is a good idea to help with these. If you feel there are any missed topics (likely), please reserve them for later.
**\<sgp\_\>** a. safe verification of the emergency
**\<sgp\_\>** in this case, we didn't have signed messages saying "this was compromised." We simply relied on several trusted accounts. What are our thoughts on this?
**\<sgp\_\>** also related: if people want to contact someone about an emergency, is there a clear disclosure process?
**\<needmonero90\>** The people who would verify signatures of warnings would verify signatures of their binaries
**\<PlasmaPower\>** you mean from the perspective of the user verifying the emergency, not the Monero team verifying the emergency?
**\<needmonero90\>** Trust-y auth is fine here.
**\<M5M400\>** I'm less worried about "fake news" as about response time, so I guess reputable community members breaking the news is fine
**\<anhdres2\>** agree
**\<cbster\>** I agree, even were there a false alarm I can't foresee harm from it
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: is there a certain threshold where you would personally say "hold on a minute, I need some extra verification"?
**\<sgp\_\>** false alerts are unprofessional and also harm the project potentially
**\<ArticMine\>** Provided one relies on decentralization for alarm security
**\<needmonero90\>** If the person was in my web of trust, no. If they were not, I would manually verify sigs
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Wouldn't hurt to have public keys of core members on getmonero
**\<needmonero90\>** Personal webs of trust are fine here, theyre probably just as effective (and faster) than signatures
**\<sgp\_\>** they're definitely faster
**\<needmonero90\>** And that's what should be prioritized imo
**\<cff97476\>** hello to everyone
**\<needmonero90\>** If there's questions, the warning can say it's a question mark
**\<sgp\_\>** I received binaryFate's RC PM and was sending out notifications 2 minutes later
**\<cff97476\>** any news?
**\<needmonero90\>** I had a post stickied on the sub a minute after I got your ping
**\<sgp\_\>** cff97476: scroll up and find section 2
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, so we are all ok with relatively basic identity checks here
**\<M5M400\>** +1
**\<sgp\_\>** no need to require something that would delay the process
**\<cbster\>** +
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, so the second question
**\<needmonero90\>** False positives are better than delayed warnings
**\<ArticMine\>** yes there is enough redundancy
**\<sgp\_\>** do we have a clear disclosure process? who should people contact?
**\<sgp\_\>** how does the discoverer know how to initiate the process of raising the alarm?
**\<binaryFate\>** I don't think we can assume much from people finding out something is wrong. It's not like programmers finding bugs who are technical and educated about response.
**\<sgp\_\>** surely long-time Monero members would probably contact people by DM and have personal relationships
**\<cbster\>** My first thought would be to turn to Reddit, but not everyone knows the site
**\<sgp\_\>** but the first person to raise the alarm in this case did so through a Github issue
**\<anhdres2\>** I would have used Reddit but I'm not technical
**\<needmonero90\>** I suspect regardless of where it was posted (irc, github, gitlab, reddit), it would have percolate quickly
**\<needmonero90\>** We have lots of lurkers
**\<needmonero90\>** Percolated\*
**\<cbster\>** There could be a section added to the site clarifying what to do in an emergency
**\<binaryFate\>** I think everyone's first thought will be different, and they are not going to dig for information to know how to disclose. Most people would think they are doing something wrong rather than recognize there is an actual issue
**\<cbster\>** Perhaps detailing the subreddit, the GitHub and a few handles of core members
**\<sgp\_\>** something in the github readme may be appropriate imo
**\<cbster\>** Although that could also lead to false alarms, not everyone understands emergencies
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm sure many users will report false alarms
**\<PlasmaPower\>** I think that might send too much "spam" (users who think they have an emergency but don't) their way
**\<PlasmaPower\>** yeah
**\<ArticMine\>** across multiple platforms for redundancy
**\<almutasim\>** False alarms have a price, too.
**\<M5M400\>** binaryFate: agreed.
**\<binaryFate\>** I find it more important to have an "internal" response process so that however this is disclosed, it then quickly gets put on the right rails by community members
**\<M5M400\>** +1
**\<ArticMine\>** +1
**\<OWLHACKATHON\>** hello world
**\<PewPewPewPew\>** is it safe to assume if someone found a problem like this again they would be technical enough to know about git and irc
**\<sgp\_\>** should we just point people who are new to #monero or something?
**\<M5M400\>** PewPewPewPew: no
**\<needmonero90\>** Don't we already?
**\<cbster\>** I think it's wise to assume
**\<cbster\>** Unwise\*
**\<needmonero90\>** Getting people to use IRC is like pulling teeth
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: just something that clearly says to go to #monero in the case of an emergency
**\<needmonero90\>** Ah I see
**\<needmonero90\>** That could work
**\<sgp\_\>** eg: what if it's an exchange or mining pool who never talks to anyone
\* ChanServ set +o needmonero90
**\<needmonero90\>** Oops
**\<OWLHACKATHON\>** go to #churchofmonero ;)
\* needmonero90 set -v OWLHACKATHON
**\<binaryFate\>** Harmless but still a lot of people never used IRC whatsoever
**\<cbster\>** It's always an option, we could offer multiple channels of reporting
**\<cbster\>** I think IRC is a good start
**\<needmonero90\>** binaryFate: linking to kiwiirc would work
**\<sgp\_\>** agreed, this is just something I think people should think about since not all the people who will notice major anomalies are always active
**\<needmonero90\>** Webirc portal
**\<needmonero90\>** No downloads, no logins
**\<\_XeN\_\>** love IRC =)
**\<binaryFate\>** It's fine to give them suggestions, but we should not assume they will follow nicely
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: of course not, we just want to make it easier for people to know what they're supposed to do
**\<sgp\_\>** Anything else on a)?
**\<PlasmaPower\>** There's a good amount of posts on r/Monero about people who lost funds because of something that was their fault like a fake web wallet, so I don't think telling people to DM the Monero team for emergencies is a good idea. A public location like IRC is probably the best idea.
**\<cbster\>** Good point
**\<sgp\_\>** b. classification of the severity
**\<sgp\_\>** should we use low - medium - high, and how? who determines?
**\<fluffyunicorn\>** ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO OWL
**\<fluffyunicorn\>** \>)\>
**\<fluffyunicorn\>** WEEEEEEE
**\<needmonero90\>** Er
**\<needmonero90\>** Can you not? This is a meeting
**\<fluffyunicorn\>** IM HERE TO HACK STUFF
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** (Sorry didn't look up in advance, re: A it may be good to look at Tails/Qubes escaltion process)
\* needmonero90 set channel modes +b fluffyunicorn!\*@\*
\* fluffyunicorn was kicked by needmonero90 (fluffyunicorn)
**\<needmonero90\>** I'll remove after the meeting.
**\<sgp\_\>** xmrscott[m]: yes, it's important to look at what other people are doing too
**\<sgp\_\>** these classifications are common in projects and in the industry
**\<cbster\>** I think low, high and critical give more emphasis
**\<sgp\_\>** we use it for HackerOne
**\<sgp\_\>** is there anyone who thinks this classification is unnecessary?
**\<binaryFate\>** what is the purpose? Public disclosure later? Internal while we work on issue?
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: depends on how it's used. could be either or both
**\<sgp\_\>** how do you envision it being used?
**\<anhdres2\>** do the classifications change how / which channels are used ? or are they only informative?
**\<cbster\>** I think they'd stay standard across platforms
**\<binaryFate\>** I don't find it very useful for either, simply because these incidents are so rare
\* needmonero90 set channel modes +b \*!18cdb83a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.24.205.184.58
**\<sgp\_\>** anhdres2: they could
**\<anhdres2\>** for example only critical are pushed to all channels and low ones only stick in reddit
**\<cbster\>** Mind you, as Monero grows, they may not stay so rare
\* satoshijnakamoto was kicked by needmonero90 (satoshijnakamoto)
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed, these should happen rarely / never
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** If they are used for escalation though the user may not know what the proper flag is, etc
**\<PlasmaPower\>** Does anyone have an example of a low severity emergency? I'm thinking that things that send out a notification, like delta direct, shouldn't be used for those.
**\<anhdres2\>** exactly
**\<PlasmaPower\>** but I'm not quite sure what a low severity emergency would be, assuming that we aren't including 3rd party services
**\<anhdres2\>** yellow warnings are usability or network related
**\<anhdres2\>** red warnings are those when funds might be in danger and therefore are not reversible
**\<anhdres2\>** for example
**\<sgp\_\>** maybe something low would be like after RingCT was first added, where blocks were super full
**\<sgp\_\>** no attack necessarily, but degraded network experience
**\<anhdres2\>** something like that yes
**\<binaryFate\>** wasn't really about an emergency response
**\<sgp\_\>** unless there are other topics on this, we can move on from b)
**\<ArticMine\>** It was a good cover for an emergency response
**\<sgp\_\>** c. communication (internal and public)
**\<sgp\_\>** this is communication standards and processes
**\<sgp\_\>** eg: do we all need to be available on a specific platform (mattermost users can't DM IRC users)
**\<sgp\_\>** also, using services like Twitter, Reddit, Blockfolio
**\<needmonero90\>** I'm generally available. My ringer is generally on even when I'm asleep, so I can resoond when stuff happens
— needmonero90 should consider getting paid for this availability
**\<sgp\_\>** we took too long this time to get the website notification up and the monero-announce mailing list email out
**\<M5M400\>** yes, the website should be a priority
**\<asymptotically\>** !tip needmonero90 0.001
**\<tippero\>** asymptotically has tipped needmonero90 1 millinero (0.001 Monero)
**\<binaryFate\>** internal communication between community members to deal with issue was very efficient I found
**\<sgp\_\>** are there other platforms we forgot about this time? ones we felt were mostly a hassle and not very beneficial?
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Where was the roadblock though in getting the site annoucement up
**\<M5M400\>** it's traditionally generally slacking, but in this case updates need to be of high priority
**\<needmonero90\>** Your generosity will not be forgotten
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Was it in getting approval after erc drafted it?
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** etc
**\<binaryFate\>** we'd need a website specific timeline of events
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Exactly
**\<sgp\_\>** can we build in notification systems with Cake Wallet, Monerujo, etc?
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** (Which may be best done after the meeting)
**\<needmonero90\>** I think we just blanked on updating the site
**\<needmonero90\>** It was an oversight
**\<needmonero90\>** Once we were clued in it was updated fairly quickly
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed, which is why the process is important. it gives us a checklist to help us remember
**\<asymptotically\>** sgp\_: bitcoin-qt used to have a built in notification system, but it kind of sucked and got removed
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: like a emergency broadcast system that pushes out to multiple outlets with minimal effort?
**\<anhdres2\>** sgp\_ I don't see how unless it adds a centralized element.
**\<cbster\>** I think built-in notification systems would be smart, but their use would be limited as those affected are probably not using them (they downloaded the core wallet)
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Built in notifications introduce a point of attack
**\<M5M400\>** yeah. super amplified FUD
**\<cbster\>** If the binaries are comprised for that, I'd be unsure of its reliability to relay notifications
**\<PlasmaPower\>** Bitcoin's now retired system: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alert\_system
**\<sgp\_\>** PlasmaPower: thanks for the reference
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Hey, wallet is compromised, download at this new (malicious) website
**\<PlasmaPower\>** cbster: yeah, though for e.g. an active linking attack it could be helpful
**\<cbster\>** I think you're right, could prove more troublesome than what it solves
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, no additional platforms coming up. keep thinking about better ways to reach people
**\<sgp\_\>** \*coming to mind
**\<sgp\_\>** d. incident response
**\<M5M400\>** I'd like to throw the mailinglist in the ring. who's got access to post there besides the big fluff?
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: good q\> I don't know
**\<binaryFate\>** everyone can post, but emails are approved on a case basis (pigeon and maybe fluffy too)
**\<M5M400\>** maybe take a note for later. I think it is a good medium, but worthless when notifications get sent out a day or two late
**\<binaryFate\>** in this case there was a misunderstanding between fluffy and myself. He thought I would send email, I thought he would
**\<binaryFate\>** (I did not have access to my PGP key in time)
**\<M5M400\>** fair enough
**\<sgp\_\>** an example of the communication process helping in that case could be specifically assigning tasks to people
**\<PlasmaPower\>** is there any generally applicable "incident response" besides communication?
**\<sgp\_\>** PlasmaPower: nice segway, thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** an example of an incident response process, though extreme, could be something like getting the opinion and help of an independent firm
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: that's not extreme. it's common practice to have security incidents assessed by independent parties to minimize the risk of compromized entities being part of the investigation
**\<sgp\_\>** right, so how do we do that without writing a $10m check to Deloitte?
**\<M5M400\>** hence my question earlier if the people disecting the box also had access at the time of breach
**\<asymptotically\>** write me a $9m check instead
**\<needmonero90\>** I'll do it for $8m
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: that's the $8m question
**\<PlasmaPower\>** I definitely agree that's a good step when a server is compromised. Would it also be applicable to e.g. an RCE in the protocol? I'm not sure how useful an investigation would be there, besides a `git blame`.
**\<needmonero90\>** And by do it I mean delegate
**\<binaryFate\>** I don't see that as possible or useful in an emergency situation. Maybe for investigations later. No firm will be hired (with what funds?), get to the case and help us in a couple hours
**\<PlasmaPower\>** true
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: right, which is why I'm looking for realistic procedures
**\<binaryFate\>** Since we are not a company and we do not have people around the clock 24/7, I think we should realistically focus on procedures indeed. Not even assigned them strictly so we do not have bottleneck if someone is afk
**\<M5M400\>** sgp\_: community internal segregation of duties would be a start
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: can you elaborate a bit more?
**\<M5M400\>** seperate publishing teams and forensic teams
**\<binaryFate\>** Maping the current capabilities (mostly website update) would be good too. What processes are required for each steps and who has the permissions currently to do them?
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: good one
**\<sgp\_\>** basic access control stuff
**\<PlasmaPower\>** though probably keep that documentation internal
**\<M5M400\>** not sure how it's organized right now, so can't elaborate in detail. but from previous conversations it seems that it's not even totally clear who even had access to the comped box. (probably multiple people)
**\<PlasmaPower\>** you don't want to provide attackers with a guide of who to attack
**\<M5M400\>** PlasmaPower: internal is a pretty fuzzy thing... where do you draw the line in the circle of trust an opensource project?
**\<M5M400\>** anyone in here could be a potential attacker
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: I agree in this case it's pretty industry-standard to have some discussions like this kept in the dl
**\<PlasmaPower\>** M5M400: it's going to be somewhat arbitrary of course, and IDK how the Monero team is currently organized, but whoever has access to the GitHub is a good place to start.
**\<sgp\_\>** any other incident response comments? we will need to revisit this much more later
**\<sgp\_\>** e. regular tests/audits
**\<sgp\_\>** ideally, we will assess the existing processes and suggest improvements. then we can test them to see how effective these processes are
**\<sgp\_\>** that's why schools have fire drills
**\<binaryFate\>** I want to highlight that people that trust each other getting on an IRC channel to discuss the situation at hand remains by far the most efficient decision process. I find it more important to remove potential bottlenecks in terms of who can do what, than to try to guide too much said decision process.
**\<binaryFate\>** Have to go now, thanks everyone, thanks sgp\_ for meeting
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: thanks for coming
**\<M5M400\>** +1 on the removing bottlenecks thing
**\<M5M400\>** cu
**\<sgp\_\>** ideally this would be its own workgroup, but I also don't know how realistic this is
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, people are pretty quiet on this one. we can keep going
**\<sgp\_\>** f. responsible roles, including alternates
**\<sgp\_\>** it's an open-source project without people getting paid for things, so people will be asleep, on vacation, etc
**\<M5M400\>** regarding fire drills... we could regularly publish emergency broadcast test posts on the outlets and have people go to a website, click on a button or something to assess message reception depth
**\<sgp\_\>** it's important imo to have a list of primary and secondary contacts
**\<M5M400\>** sorry, I'm slow. it's late.
**\<needmonero90\>** One solution is to create a hired role for this.
— needmonero90 puts his name into the hat
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: I'll give you $1
**\<needmonero90\>** 🤔
**\<needmonero90\>** I can do a writeup of role requirements later
**\<sgp\_\>** that would be very beneficial
**\<sgp\_\>** eg: Justin is the primary for Blockfolio, secondary for Twitter, etc
**\<sgp\_\>** any other ideas? we're getting close to finishing this long meeting
**\<M5M400\>** would those roles be published somewhere?
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: I recommend they're only given to trusted people
**\<sgp\_\>** give people only what they need to see
**\<sgp\_\>** g. missed topics and frameworks
**\<sgp\_\>** If you have any topics you feel were not covered or some other better framework to consider going forward, please mention these now for discussion.
**\<M5M400\>** \<void\>
**\<ArticMine\>** I would raise the question of post incident hardening
**\<M5M400\>** good one
**\<asymptotically\>** is there a post mortem of how the bad wallet binary actually ended up on the site? or is that not known yet
**\<M5M400\>** but probably needs the forensics to complete first
**\<asymptotically\>** ok nvm that answered my question :p
**\<M5M400\>** though it begs the question what makes the DR host more secure than the comped box at this point in time
**\<needmonero90\>** Nothing left on my end
**\<ArticMine\>** Yes that is the case, but for example hardening the the binary verification process
**\<ArticMine\>** Such as rehrar suggested but going further
**\<ArticMine\>** binary verification for android
**\<ArticMine\>** Free BSD etc
**\<M5M400\>** still awake - but I can't contribute to this
**\<sgp\_\>** ArticMine: I don't have anything to add here, but I'll note the process
**\<sgp\_\>** Any final thoughts?
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Action items
**\<sgp\_\>** I will compile the recommendations in 3 into a document and share the initial draft version
**\<sgp\_\>** Once shared, please comment on the draft
**\<sgp\_\>** Please think about specific roles you would feel comfortable filling, even in a backup role
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar named an action item 1000 years ago when the meeting started but I forget what it was
**\<sgp\_\>** then there's the action item of identifying who has access to what parts of the server (or making sure the core team has that info already)
**\<sgp\_\>** Anything else?
**\<ArticMine\>** It was about improving the guides for binary verification
**\<ArticMine\>** Making them easier to understand for users
**\<rehrar\>** Goodness! This is still going?
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, add that :)
**\<sgp\_\>** very nearly done rehrar, we were very productive
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Write up website notification timeline to figure out what the major contributors were ro thevdelay
**\<asymptotically\>** maybe openbsd signify would be easier than a pgp signed shasums file?
**\<sgp\_\>** xmrscott[m]: good, have a timeline so we can see what took the longest
**\<sgp\_\>** last chance to say something
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** Thank you for participating in this extremely important discussion for Monero
**\<almutasim\>** Thank you.
**\<M5M400\>** thx
**\<sgp\_\>** I was extremely pleased at the dedication for this emergency response, and with some organization, I think we can set a gold standard for other projects to follow
**\<sgp\_\>** See you all later :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Great :)
\* needmonero90 set channel modes -b \*!18cdb83a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.24.205.184.58
\* needmonero90 set channel modes -b \*!18cdb83a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.24.205.184.58
\* needmonero90 set channel modes -b fluffyunicorn!\*@\*

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2019-12-07
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** Meeting time!
**\<rottensox\>** :-D
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/418
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<rottensox\>** o/
**\<rottensox\>** wuddup bra.
**\<sgp\_\>** ping rehrar needmonero90 ArticMine ErCiccione[m]
**\<rottensox\>** ping all.
**\<needmonero90\>** Oh right
**\<needmonero90\>** This is today
**\<hyc\>** I thought yesterday was today
**\<rottensox\>** wat.
**\<ajs[m]\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** welcome everyone! thanks for coming
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** The special upgrade edition Coffee Chat was the most-viewed to date, with 248 hours of watch time and 1,300 views. This is more watch time than the previous record held by the November 2017 Coffee Chat.
**\<sgp\_\>** (thanks of course to everyone who helped make it possible)
**\<sgp\_\>** Note that the Monero website was compromised for a short period of time. Please see this: https://getmonero.org/2019/11/19/warning-compromised-binaries.html
**\<sgp\_\>** You can see the meeting logs here: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/413
**\<sgp\_\>** The Core Team made a blog post about the administration of the general fund: https://getmonero.org/2019/12/03/core-team-general-fund.html
**\<sgp\_\>** And of course, the Monero network upgraded successfully!
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<rottensox\>** launch your native tongue monero-focused podcast.
**\<rottensox\>** :-)
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed, please make more content everyone! in all the languages
**\<needmonero90\>** The subreddit will be codifying the informal 'two week between advertisements' and 'no reflinks' rules that have been enforced without being listed for ages
**\<sgp\_\>** thank goodness reflinks are officially banned
**\<monerobby\>** I launched xmrnotify.com :)
**\<sgp\_\>** welcome monerobby!
**\<rottensox\>** reflinks officially banned? hmm?
**\<needmonero90\>** They have been unofficially
**\<monerobby\>** hello
**\<needmonero90\>** Hi
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** 36c3 supplies (503.88/560 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/36c3.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Multiple features and fixes for getmonero.org: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website.html
**\<sgp\_\>** wait, never mind that second one! already in progress whoops
**\<sgp\_\>** Surae: research funding for Nov 2019 – Jan 2020 (339.07 / 499 XMR): https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/surae-q4-funding-2019.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** RandomX thanks: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/107
**\<sgp\_\>** This received mixed feedback
**\<sgp\_\>** Some people recommended immediately adding this to "completed tasks" with a donation link instead of funding required
**\<sgp\_\>** Others prefer for it not to be added to the CCS, saying another donation platform is more appropriate
**\<sgp\_\>** And of course some people feel it should be added as-is
**\<sgp\_\>** jtgrassie needmonero90 want to give some comments?
**\<rottensox\>** i liked needmonies90 comment.
**\<needmonero90\>** luigi1111w ping
**\<sgp\_\>** fwiw, I merely want to note that I spoke with a few other people who wanted to donate to RandomX, and they found the process of donating to the provided Github link to be unclear
**\<needmonero90\>** My thoughts are already basically all expressed
**\<sgp\_\>** the user I spoke with wanted a clear way to contribute to all RandomX contributors. They felt confused on how the GitHub donations would be dispersed and it took them a little while to find
**\<sgp\_\>** of course, that doesn't necessarily suggest that the CCS is warranted for these reasons
**\<hyc\>** I'm not sure I see how this is a \*misuse* of the CCS though.
**\<needmonero90\>** In short, paying for work retroactively cheapens the work done for years by other people without pay
**\<sgp\_\>** but I wanted to forward the feedback
**\<needmonero90\>** It's not a misuse. I am concerned about precedrbt
**\<needmonero90\>** Precedent
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: I don't quite agree with your perspective since people can donate for any reason on any platform to anyone, but I don't think the CCS is ideal for this
**\<hyc\>** So it's a bad precedent to thank people for work done, after the fact?
**\<rottensox\>** 'While I really like the sentiment, I'm a bit worried about the precedent that this would set for the project as a whole. I think using the CCS for this particular initiative is a misstep, personally.
**\<rottensox\>** I would have zero problems with self directed donations directly to the contributors, or even a separate non-CCS custodian, but if we're getting into 'retroactive paychecks for prior work done without expectation of pay', we have tons of people who fit the bill, and singling any of them out over the CCS cheapens the work done by the others.'
**\<sgp\_\>** I would probably personally feel more comfortable with moving this to completed tasks or something directly
**\<rottensox\>** individual, direct donations. not ccs. done.
**\<hyc\>** It's up to those people to write CCS proposals
**\<rottensox\>** and it's up to the community to let them in or not. :-)
**\<sgp\_\>** maybe a solution, independent of whatever is done with the CCS, is a clearer description of how the GitHub donations are dispersed
**\<hyc\>** I don't see any precedent being set that changes the mission of the CCS
**\<rottensox\>** ok.
**\<hyc\>** Fwiw I don't believe this could have worked the "traditional" way, as a CCS done in advance.
**\<hyc\>** Mainly because nobody knew in advane whether the work would ever result in anything successful.
**\<needmonero90\>** We also dont know if it will work
**\<hyc\>** We took on the development risk instead of asking the community to bear it
**\<hyc\>** Sure, it's still an open question that can only be answered after the passage of time
**\<needmonero90\>** Maybe it does get asic'd six months down the line
**\<needmonero90\>** A payment for this and not other tweaks would be a bit premature, no?
**\<hyc\>** at any rate, if anyone in the community feels like saying thanks, why prevent using the CCS for that purpose?
**\<hyc\>** This isn't asking for payment. You couldn't afford to pay the horus spent.
**\<needmonero90\>** Because it opens the door to every two bit coder or ecosystem contributor to ask for a slot
**\<sgp\_\>** I wonder if another part/page of the CCS for donations to various contributors, workgroups, etc would help meet the goals here while keeping the CCS proposals for work that follows a more typical process
**\<hyc\>** hours
**\<rottensox\>** I do not think using CCS is correct.
**\<needmonero90\>** Where is the line for retroactive work
**\<needmonero90\>** Using the CCS to ask for payment for future work or future expenses just feels..well scoped
**\<hyc\>** The line is where the community decides whether to fund any proposal or not.
**\<hyc\>** The same line it has always been.
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: respectfully I think the more important point is that the CCS process isn't really meant for retroactive work at all, whether than the concern of setting a precedent
**\<sgp\_\>** \*rather than
**\<needmonero90\>** Sure
**\<needmonero90\>** I'm using the phrase precedent
**\<rottensox\>** if it isn't meant for that, why are we still discussing it then?
**\<rottensox\>** no ccs. that's it.
**\<needmonero90\>** Nah that's the open question
**\<hyc\>** There's nowhere in the CCS that precludes it
**\<sgp\_\>** is there anyone that would be opposed to a clear CCS page with donation links to workgroups, initiatives, and contributors? Would that meet everyone's concerns?
**\<sgp\_\>** that's what I personally feel would be most appropriate
**\<sgp\_\>** with the Monero project donation address at the top of course
**\<hyc\>** It seems pretty stupid to me. Folks in the community want a single place they can go to to contribute to the project. You're telling them no. Makes no sense.
**\<rottensox\>** if we do that, it has to include clause stating any donation to workgroups, initiatives or contributors is entirely voluntary and is not part of the ccs themselves. do i get it right? sgp\_.
**\<sgp\_\>** hyc: what do you think of adding a fifth button on ccs.getmonero.org for misc donations?
**\<rottensox\>** it'd be confusing if we add all those links, along with the classic ccs funding proposals...
**\<hyc\>** That might work
**\<hyc\>** rottensox: the entire CCS is voluntary so I don't see your point
**\<sgp\_\>** rottensox: they would be on a separate page, not under any of the 4 existing components
**\<rottensox\>** ok.
**\<rottensox\>** sgp\_: thanks.
**\<needmonero90\>** An index of donation addresses is fine
**\<sgp\_\>** I can speak with rehrar to see what this could look like, since I think adding clearer donation options is good, and so is preserving a clear "work-in-progress" process. Hopefully this is a good compromise that does both
**\<needmonero90\>** No objections
**\<sgp\_\>** and then it gives exposure in the same way the other CCS projects get exposure. all on 1 platform for more legitimacy
**\<rottensox\>** might be a good idea. hope you get to talk him more on this soon.
**\<sgp\_\>** ok cool, let's start there and see what we can do
**\<hyc\>** +1
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, on to the second one
**\<sgp\_\>** us-west-cost-monero-drop-storage: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/108
**\<sgp\_\>** This includes a discussion about reimbursements. How do we feel about this proposal and using the CCS for reimbursements?
**\<sgp\_\>** I personally am ok with the reimbursements. Note however that I was reimbursed for many Monero meetup travel costs in 2017
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar indicated however that this CCS may not be necessary if other funds that were already raised can cover the shortfall
**\<sgp\_\>** so it's on hold anyway until we figure that out since it may not be needed
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: do you have any comments here? you asked to bring up this topic of reimbursements
**\<needmonero90\>** I feel like the bad guy of the CCS right now, heh
**\<needmonero90\>** I kind of take issue with reimbursements for overages on CCS stuff, because it encourages lowballing (to a degree) if you can expect people to pay for the excess
**\<sgp\_\>** I also want to note that ErCiccione expressed disapproval of this proposal and the purchasing and storing of equipment for Defcon in general
**\<needmonero90\>** idk, people make CCS requests, and should hopefully build in potential overages
**\<needmonero90\>** this case is special of course, because it was unknown that the storage site would cover it
**\<needmonero90\>** would increase costs\*
**\<sgp\_\>** I think that's a valid point, but we need to be careful about the flip side where the community always overpays for everything in the worst case. It's a bit of a balance
**\<ajs[m]\>** not all the funds raised in the original proposal was used by the way
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar is custodying them, right?
**\<needmonero90\>** hm?
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: there is Defcon 2019 money leftover
**\<ajs[m]\>** most of it was allocated to the dev fund because we couldn't record video
**\<sgp\_\>** I think for this proposal we are waiting on rehrar's description of funds leftover
**\<sgp\_\>** but your point about discouraging lowballing is noted needmonero90
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other CCS comments before we move on?
**\<ajs[m]\>** I'll make sure to high-ball next time
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<sgp\_\>** haha
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** No major changes have been made since the 0.15.0.1 release as far as I can tell, but there are many small back-end changes and test improvements for reliability.
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione isn't here today to give an update, but he recently gave one on Reddit
**\<sgp\_\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** A contributor reported many small quirks, and these were quickly patched by xiphon and others
**\<selsta\>** GUI tagged v0.15.0.2 and will be out in ~24 hours
**\<msvb-fab\>** I have a one liner Monero hardware team workgroup report.
**\<sgp\_\>** Thanks selsta :)
**\<selsta\>** depending on how fast fluffy is uploading the bins
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: do you know if anyone is working on the i2p integration? I haven't seen updates to the PR in a few weeks
**\<selsta\>** AFAIK no one is working on it currently.
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, thanks
**\<rottensox\>** news about Kastelo? :DDDD
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Monero Research Lab
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang is here to give an update :)
**\<sarang\>** Primarily have been working on transaction protocols and proving systems: CLSAG is getting a security model overhaul, and Triptych is getting finalized
**\<sarang\>** I've been working recently with Aram, a Zcoin cryptographer, since his Lelantus work has some structural similarities to Triptych
**\<sarang\>** Note that no CLSAG algorithm changes are yet proposed... only a stronger security model
**\<sarang\>** Plenty of tedious math and proofs :)
**\<sarang\>** (thanks to the anonymous FC conference reviewers for their insights)
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks sarang
**\<sarang\>** no prob
**\<sgp\_\>** e. Hardware workgroup
**\<msvb-fab\>** Thanks, Monero hardware team status update follows.
**\<msvb-fab\>** We may have Kastelo developer kits available for distribution or at least demonstration for 37C3.
**\<msvb-fab\>** However, I failed to get a ticket for the event so I won't be on site.
**\<msvb-fab\>** If anybody wants to help, please notify me.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Help means:
**\<msvb-fab\>** Deliver the hardware team speech that is in the RIAT frab system.
**\<msvb-fab\>** And demonstrate the devices.
**\<msvb-fab\>** That's all, thank you sgp\_. Next topic.
**\<sgp\_\>** That was indeed quick, thanks msvb-fab
**\<rottensox\>** you meant 36C3, no?
**\<sgp\_\>** hopefully someone can get you a ticket
**\<msvb-fab\>** Ups, is it year 36? Yes.
**\<rottensox\>** i'm afraid so, yes.
**\<msvb-fab\>** I guess Defcon 27 and 36C3. That's it.
**\<rottensox\>** wonderful to know there'll be development kits available. thanks for the update.
**\<rottensox\>** indeed.
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Konferenco 2020
**\<msvb-fab\>** Me and pebx are the location scouts for Berlin, which won the Konferenco location survey.
**\<sgp\_\>** msvb-fab: you have the floor again for Berlin planning progress
**\<rottensox\>** :DDD
**\<msvb-fab\>** There are midterm scouting results to see, but please note that these values are semi private (not public at all.=
**\<msvb-fab\>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-konferenco/task/40/
**\<msvb-fab\>** It seems pebx is not here, he or she has not published their results (to me) but has said they are scouting thirty (?) locations.
**\<nioc\>** there was another survey?
**\<rottensox\>** there was a network split between sgp\_ and msvb-fab running surveys for konferenco 2020.
**\<sgp\_\>** nioc: no I never made another one. I need to follow up with the others to see if anything else was found
**\<msvb-fab\>** I don't know how many survey there were, but the one I did covered six cities and two questions, about six hundred hits and two hundred fifty votes.
**\<sgp\_\>** msvb-fab: can you clearly specify for each venue if we can handle our own catering and A/V?
**\<nioc\>** sgp\_: ok, don't think another survey would change things, just wondering if I missed something
**\<msvb-fab\>** Yes, but it has been very time consuming and a couple venues have not yet reported prices.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Don't worry as I've informed all venues that we're sensitive to freedoms and restrictions, naming specificatlly A/V technik and catering.
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, keep us updated please
**\<rottensox\>** we're set for berlin is what i'm understanding?
**\<sgp\_\>** rottensox: most likely unless the venues all suck
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<rottensox\>** okiedokie.
**\<msvb-fab\>** rottensox In the end only Berlin will host Konferenco if the conference boss (who nobody has volunteered to be) decides it. Kind of a dictatorship like last year.
**\<rottensox\>** heh.
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah, Berlin so far is the only place where work has gone into it yet, so it's kinda the default choice at this point
**\<msvb-fab\>** Any other location venue questions about Konferenco?
**\<rottensox\>** everyone was rooting for eu months ago, now they don't even participate in the meetings.
**\<rottensox\>** happens all the time.
**\<rottensox\>** msvb-fab: what approximate date do we have? just to have an idea?
**\<rottensox\>** mid 2020?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'll follow up with pebx
**\<rehrar\>** test
**\<monerobux\>** test failed
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<rottensox\>** sgp\_: kk, let's move on.
**\<rottensox\>** we're running out of time for meeting.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Folks, it's quite time consuming to scout venues, so if anybody knows of a reason that I should stop doing this please say so and I'll put scouting on hold. There are already a lot of megabytes of information regarding seating, services, options, darkening windows, floorplans and a bunch of stuff.
**\<rehrar\>** argh. Sorry for missing the meeting. Mattermost was disconnected.
**\<msvb-fab\>** rottensox I've told all venue managers that we want a weekend in May or June.
**\<sgp\_\>** cool, thanks msvb-fab. We should work with pebx to help organize this all in a comprehensive format
**\<rottensox\>** msvb-fab: thanks a lot.
**\<sgp\_\>** But we shall proceed for now for time's sake
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Open ideas time
**\<sgp\_\>** It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
**\<sgp\_\>** How did we market this release? What could we have done better? What else in the community can be improved?
**\<sarang\>** I would like to know ways to better engage the ecosystem when it comes to network upgrades
**\<sarang\>** e.g. Zcash is having an upcoming upgrade, and it's interesting to watch their list of supported services
**\<sarang\>** https://z.cash/upgrade/blossom/
**\<sarang\>** https://mobile.twitter.com/zooko/status/1203050788257333248
**\<sarang\>** Hopefully lessons to learn, or information to share
**\<hyc\>** In particular, how do we get exchanges to upgrade as soon as new code is available, as opposed to waiting until the new fork actually occurs?
**\<sgp\_\>** hyc: that's a huge annoying problem :/
**\<sarang\>** ^
**\<hyc\>** all of those exchanges waiting till last minute looked pretty stupid
**\<sgp\_\>** OsrsNeedF2P put in a ton of work compiling a list in r/xmrtrader
**\<sgp\_\>** but most exchanges were lazy
**\<rottensox\>** not our fault.
**\<sarang\>** If it affects users, it's a big deal
**\<sgp\_\>** we need to somehow get these services to subscribe to the announce mailing list at the minimum
**\<msvb-fab\>** If you are here ajs, please join #monero-konferenco
**\<hyc\>** or we need users to make more noise too, badger their exchanges
**\<hyc\>** not sure that's effective though, badgering tech support seldom has much positive effect
**\<rottensox\>** mailing list sounds like a good idea, but then all the exchanges are ultimately divided and god knows if the right person will get the e-mail notification at the end. sgp\_
**\<sgp\_\>** I can ask Sonya from Zcash to see if she is familiar with the process of contacting exchanges
**\<sarang\>** Good idea sgp\_
**\<sarang\>** Hopefully it doesn't come down to "hope that the right exchanges follow you on twitter"...
**\<sgp\_\>** lol
**\<Snipa\>** Exchanges tend to listen to high value holders more than anything else, unsurprisingly. Having gone through some of the processes before, it's surprisingly hard to get them to listen, even if you're running a medium-ish sized fund
**\<Snipa\>** Medium ish being several million dollars in held crypto at any point.
**\<sarang\>** I'm surprised there isn't a more formalized "established contact" system between exchanges and the projects whose code they run
**\<rottensox\>** nioc is the official network upgrading certified individual then.
**\<rottensox\>** that's the biggest whale.
**\<sgp\_\>** most of the time they probably talk to companies or don't care enough about the low-caps
**\<Snipa\>** This was specifically a registered crypto fund that I was advising on their Monero handling processes and how they managed them IRT exchanges.
**\<sgp\_\>** Snipa: thanks for this perspective
**\<sgp\_\>** in my experience, most funds don't know much about the crypto they are trading, so their feedback is not often taken to heart
**\<Snipa\>** Smaller exchanges tend to be using whitelabel products in my experience, so they don't always have the technical expertise to handle a network upgrade safely, which are the ones that would be easiest to grab with a specified upgrade procedure and such. Larger exchanges that have done extense integration work with the client API's care more about changelogs and such from my contact perspective.
**\<nioc\>** rottensox: I'm big in your eyes :)
**\<nioc\>** also don't forget I'm in NY :(
**\<rottensox\>** so?
**\<rottensox\>** i can be in Venezuela. i still have an internet connection to pester exchanges.
**\<rottensox\>** nioc: you misspelled cute.
**\<rottensox\>** in any case, shouldn't the meeting have ended by now?
**\<Snipa\>** I ran into that as well sgp\_, as I was sub-advising for some startup funds as well. The main fund I was working with was specifically investing in privacy/security chains, so they had an outsized position in XMR. I'd suspect chasing down fund managers would not be the /worst/ idea in the world, to provide leverage against the exchanges.
**\<sgp\_\>** yes probably, but we should keep the conversation about how to talk with exchanges and other services in our minds
**\<sgp\_\>** Snipa: thanks, let me know if we can arm them with any resources they might need to chat with the exchanges
**\<sgp\_\>** but I'm going to wrap this up for now, since I need to enjoy my weekend :)
**\<sgp\_\>** not that this meeting isn't enjoyable ofc :p
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 21 December at 17:00 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** 8. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2019-12-21
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/421
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<parasew[m]\>** hello!
**\<almutasim\>** Hi.
**\<Snipa\>** Hallo all.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Helo.
**\<rehrar\>** hi
**\<learninandlurkin\>** hello there
**\<txmr[m]\>** Hi
**\<ErCiccione\>** Hi
**\<sgp\_\>** glad to see many people here and the mattermost relay working
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for being here
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Most notably, a large portion of the community is focused on making the 36c3 a success
**\<sgp\_\>** There was also "An update from the Core Team on some technical responsibilities" https://web.getmonero.org/2019/12/16/technical-responsibilities-update.html
**\<kinghat\>** o/
**\<sgp\_\>** say hello to Monero's new lead maintainer Snipa!
\* sgp\_ waits for at least 1 person to say hello
**\<parasew[m]\>** hello!
**\<nevvton[m]\>** hi..
**\<sgp\_\>** lol there it is
**\<Snipa\>** Morning, glad to be here and looking forwards to driving the project forwards.
**\<almutasim\>** Hello. Great! Congratulations to Snipa.
**\<rehrar\>** Snipa!
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<rehrar\>** I have written you a ballad.
**\<kinghat\>** you get a CEO! and you get a CEO!
**\<kinghat\>** new reocuo is out
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<kinghat\>** reouvu\*
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** Sarang: research funding for 2020 Q1 (340.24 / 695 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/sarang-2020-q1.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed): None
**\<sgp\_\>** As discussed during the last meeting, there was a desire to have a standalone page on the CCS for donations to workgroups and contributors. I opened an issue for this: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/issues/1
**\<sgp\_\>** Is there any material you believe is missing or could be better? Unless someone else can take up this project, it will probably land on rehrar’s plate and will not be touched for a while.
**\<learninandlurkin\>** that sounds like a great idea
**\<ErCiccione\>** i just PRd my new CCSfor jan-march: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge\_requests/111
**\<ErCiccione\>** i'm also writing a comment about the past one in this very moment
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: cool, we can discuss that too
\* needmonero90 arrives
**\<ErCiccione\>** sgp\_ i'm not completely sure that giving funds to workgroups is a good idea. I mean, how would they be managed? by whom? for what would the funds be used for?
**\<rehrar\>** agreed
**\<ErCiccione\>** i see a lot of possible controversies
**\<rehrar\>** with erciccione
**\<rehrar\>** I think that any workgroup that would want to receive money this way must have a statement with who will be in charge of it and how it will be handled.
**\<rehrar\>** And that info would have to be posted alongside the address so people know the terms
**\<rehrar\>** and if that's the case, it seems to a bit excessive for the CCS website.
**\<rehrar\>** Perhaps another (not core team) hosted alternative site for such a thing would be best.
**\<rehrar\>** The CCS is, at its heart, a core team arbited crowdfunding thing. I think it's slightly out of scope for the site to also have other fundraising methods not overseen by them
**\<learninandlurkin\>** I guess workgroups are meant to be their own independent entities where they can
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: I was personally thinking of outreach in particular, who raised funds historically and checks in relatively often with updates
**\<rehrar\>** they never claim their paychecks :P
**\<sgp\_\>** I think it's pretty clear to the donor that if they send funds to a "Monero Outreach" address, that the workgroup manages the funds as they see fit
**\<ErCiccione\>** and they are not really transparent with the rewards AFAIK. i mean, there is no public list of transactions that i know of
**\<sgp\_\>** jtgrassie raised the issue that it was difficult for people to otherwise find groups to donate to outside the ccs
**\<ErCiccione\>** sgp\_: but what is "the workgroup"?
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: I think it's clear in this case transparency is not expected
**\<ErCiccione\>** mmh, don't know. I think if we want to have an "open fund" for workgroups, the terms should be more strict
**\<sgp\_\>** it's not really an open fund
**\<sgp\_\>** we're not allocating any money
**\<sgp\_\>** it's a list of addresses that people can donate to if they want
**\<selsta\>** Couldn’t you also post your address on the old forum software?
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: yes
**\<selsta\>** It would be similar to that, just for workgroups.
**\<rehrar\>** technically it's against the rules
**\<sgp\_\>** you could include an address in your profile
**\<rehrar\>** I'd be more comfortable with it on a separate site tbh.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: it's against the rules to include in the CCS ideas/in progress/etc workflow
**\<selsta\>** Who would visit that site?
**\<sgp\_\>** like it or not, to most outside people, the CCS is THE way for people to find projects to contribute to
**\<ErCiccione\>** got it, but i'm still not convinced. Maybe rehrar is right and something external might be better
**\<rehrar\>** no. It's against the rules to put your address in a proposal.
**\<sgp\_\>** we can try to push something else, but I'm worried that would be even more complicated
**\<xmrhaelan\>** On CCS would be the most effective way to increase support for community projects and I think it would actually help take pressure off the core team in terms of accountability
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: in the proposal is what I meant. I don't see this as a proposal at all
**\<rehrar\>** I don't like that this centralizes the workgroups onto core team infrastructure even further.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: it's an optional thing
**\<sgp\_\>** monero community workgroup won't be on there
**\<xmrhaelan\>** I see that concern.
**\<selsta\>** How is posting an address centralization? :P
**\<rehrar\>** the workgroups are supposed to be decentralized and separate/non-answerable to the core team. This gives core team power to deny some workgroups over others, effectively creating a "what we deem necessary" approach
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: how is having a list of workgroups centralization?
**\<xmrhaelan\>** It’s also the best option. As has been mentioned already it would be difficult to promote yet another site
**\<sgp\_\>** we already kinda have/had one
**\<rehrar\>** I just answered that. Read above.
**\<Snipa\>** The only way I could see it causing centralization would be if there wasn't a process for "How does a workgroup get included" and/or that process provided rather direct ways for a workgroup to be excluded that are obviously targets.
**\<xmrhaelan\>** Exactly
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: in my opinion this concern is entirely outweighed by the benefits of having a clear page and clear discussions about what groups get added
**\<rehrar\>** then iron that out, and I'm willing to reconsider
**\<rehrar\>** but it's not currently present
**\<selsta\>** right, the alternative would be close to no donations to workgroups
**\<sgp\_\>** I think we can have a page without being required to list Church of Monero, and for that to be okay
**\<Snipa\>** If a workgroup meets the process requirements, then doesn't get included, that's a different problem, but process helps to deal with that in the first place.
**\<xmrhaelan\>** So let’s plan to have a temp committee to put together a proposal for what that would look like
**\<rehrar\>** \*reconsider my position
**\<ErCiccione\>** I suggest to create a mock up to show how this proposal would look integrated to the present CCS system, right now it's not entirely clear to me how all this would look
**\<selsta\>** sounds complicated :D
**\<sgp\_\>** I mean, we already have a list for merchants and a basic list of requirements for them to be added
**\<rehrar\>** as written, my statement sounds like I'm the decider of this matter and I'm not
**\<rehrar\>** sgp\_ yes but this is for the getmonero.org website
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: https://web.getmonero.org/community/merchants/
**\<rehrar\>** oof I hate this page
**\<sgp\_\>** lol
**\<ErCiccione\>** tell me about it rehrar :P
**\<ErCiccione\>** updating it is no fun
**\<xmrhaelan\>** +1
**\<rehrar\>** another thing that should be moved to a third party
**\<rehrar\>** xmrchants.com
**\<parasew[m]\>** +1
**\<rehrar\>** although it looks like xmr chants.
**\<rehrar\>** where we can also list some gregorian chant style Monero songs
**\<ErCiccione\>** should be completely reorganized at least, but that requires a good amount of time
**\<xmrhaelan\>** MO has discussed plans to build a directory where merchants can add themselves, but that’s a long ways out.
**\<parasew[m]\>** but i am also not sure why "libraries and helpers" are merchants
**\<rehrar\>** I think
**\<sgp\_\>** didn't mean to open up another discussion here, just wanted to point out that we have something similar. I don't expect the proposed CCS page to be as chaotic
**\<rehrar\>** a workgroup page with donation addresses can be added to the main getmonero.org website if it must be on core infrastructure
**\<ErCiccione\>** xmrhaelan: no way for now, they already managed to make my life harder even with the issue template
**\<ErCiccione\>** \*hard
**\<rehrar\>** the Team page was already going to be reorganized into a workgroup page
**\<rehrar\>** you know, when I'm not drowning in other work
**\<parasew[m]\>** +1 ErCiccione - reorganisation of the merchants part is a very good thing. maybe we could do this in a git repo, where the info is collected
**\<rehrar\>** but I can make that a priority after C3
**\<xmrhaelan\>** @erciccione It would be on MoneroOutreach.org
**\<rehrar\>** anyone care to discuss the merits of having the donation adddresses on this new Workgroups page on the website rather than the CCS site?
**\<ErCiccione\>** parasew: there are multiple ways to do that, better open an issue and discuss about it
**\<xmrhaelan\>** That seems like a reasonable approach
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: what about the centralization of the workgroups page!
**\<xmrhaelan\>** ^responding to Rehrar
**\<rehrar\>** If we are really gung ho about the CCS site then I will discuss with core. But the CCS site isn't quite as hands-off about content as they are with getmonero
**\<sgp\_\>** kidding, I'm open to ideas that include donation links
**\<rehrar\>** sgp\_ I'm making concessions here for you
**\<rehrar\>** ideally, it wouldn't be on getmonero infra at all
**\<rehrar\>** but if you guys are adamant about it, I would be much happier with it on getmonero.org rather than the ccs
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm worried it will conflict with the user mindset of "I want to make a donation, so I'm going to check out CCS"
**\<rehrar\>** If anything, a link can be added to the CCS that takes to this page on the website
**\<sgp\_\>** workgroup page is more "I want to see what's out there and help out"
**\<rehrar\>** so they will still go to the CCS with "donation mode" activated, and find where to donate
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: that could work
**\<sgp\_\>** In any case, it seems like the CCS page is lower priority than the workgroups page
**\<rehrar\>** just my thoughts on the matter
**\<almutasim\>** It would be good to look at it in terms of what maximizes donations to the workgroups.
**\<sgp\_\>** but that the workgroups page revamp is well overdue
**\<rehrar\>** in other CCS news, Zcoin adopted Monero's CCS.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar, ooh, link?
**\<rehrar\>** zcs.zcoin.io
**\<learninandlurkin\>** workgroup page as a central place to donate/help/contribute/contact different groups sounds better
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: very cool, thanks for sharing
**\<ErCiccione\>** agree with prioritizing the new workgroups page
**\<learninandlurkin\>** then keep the ccs as a crowdfunder for specific work over specifc time windows
**\<rehrar\>** See? Monero puts out stuff that people want. Yay!
**\<rehrar\>** They asked us to help implement, and Xiphon and I used the opportunity to give the CCS some upgrades. Those should be rolling out to Monero in the new year.
**\<xmrhaelan\>** Perhaps we go that route, but also add a link on CCS main page pointing back to Workgroups page?
**\<rehrar\>** One of the upgrades you can see now: https://zcs.zcoin.io/proposals/test.html
**\<learninandlurkin\>** that's actually awesome. Did they get a lot of help setting up or did they just quietly take the code and launch it?
**\<rehrar\>** Clicking contribute button doesn't take to a new page.
**\<learninandlurkin\>** oh I see
**\<rehrar\>** as sometimes those pages were slow to generate or there were a few bugs in the past. And now it feels like a tighter experience.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: off-topic but after clicking on "milstones" I can't get back to the proposal. just keeps opening/closing the contribute
**\<rehrar\>** lolol
**\<xmrhaelan\>** I’ve gotta run, looks like we have some more Monero Outreach representation here now. Thanks all. Happy holidays!
**\<rehrar\>** aight, I'll see what's up with this
**\<sgp\_\>** anyway it seems like we're getting sidetracked here, so we can move on
**\<sgp\_\>** my fault
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** vtnerd contributed some more networking improvements for enhanced privacy.
**\<ErCiccione\>** (remember to check out and comment my proposal pls ^\_^)
**\<sgp\_\>** There were many other updates to make the code more robust
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: thanks for the reminder. I look forward to your writeup
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: updates?
**\<ErCiccione\>** if yo uare referring to the old CSS, it will be just a short comemnt, no write up
**\<ErCiccione\>** about localizations,
**\<ErCiccione\>** not much really, but soon there will be need for translators. A lot of strings are being changed, especially in the GUI
**\<ErCiccione\>** also, in the next months i will work to put getmonero on weblate
**\<ErCiccione\>** because translating the website was fine when there weren't many updates
**\<ErCiccione\>** but with more stuff coming or changing, we really need a localization platform
**\<ErCiccione\>** the problem is that monero-site need some heay tweaks before being fully translatable on weblate
**\<ErCiccione\>** That's it, nothing else coming in my mind
**\<ErCiccione\>** oh one thing
**\<ErCiccione\>** if somebody speak brazilian portuguese, please come chat on #monero-translations. We got many commits changing/updating a lot of stuff, but there is an unprecedent luck of reviewers, and we weren't having too many before...
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's everything i can recall now
**\<almutasim\>** Weblate sounds great.
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks
**\<ErCiccione\>** weblate -> translate.getmonero.org
**\<almutasim\>** Nice.
**\<sgp\_\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** A million small UX improvements for consistency have been raised and patched. There is a lot of ongoing discussion lately thanks to a few contributors who are raising many issues, so please participate!
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Outreach workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** They have a draft ready on “RPC-Pay” tentatively scheduled for the week between Christmas and New Year’s.
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else xmrhaelan almutasim?
**\<almutasim\>** We have a couple of other articles in the queue.
**\<almutasim\>** And Thunderosa is setting up an Outreach server.
**\<almutasim\>** He may have more to add on that. The plan is to have it host a Pay-for-RPC (or RPC-Pay) node.
**\<thunderosa\>** We'll be setting up Primo and trying that out as a way to help fund ourselves.
**\<thunderosa\>** I think we have a neat way to deploy their software with content and authors. We'll know more clearly in the next week or so on how that might work.
**\<thunderosa\>** Otherwise, I'm in catchup mode on the Calendar and merchant projects but expect them to move along much quicker.
**\<thunderosa\>** That's about it for me.
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks!
**\<sgp\_\>** e. 36c3 workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** The organizers are going crazy in #monero-ccc and in real life preparing. The talks will be livestreamed on the Monero Community Workgroup channel https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup
**\<monerobux\>** [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Talk will also conduct several interviews. Expect a lot of Monero and privacy content this holiday season. The 36c3 takes place December 27-30 in Leipzig, Germany.
**\<sgp\_\>** parasew[m]: anything else?
**\<parasew[m]\>** C3 workgroup is preparing the last steps for the show which will be from 27th-30th dec in germany!
**\<parasew[m]\>** yes, i prepared some updates!
**\<parasew[m]\>** the taiga on getmonero holds some information, in case you don’t know what this is about: https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/parasew-36c3/wiki/home
**\<parasew[m]\>** There is a large gathering of privacy-related ‘assemblies’ and there will be a live stage, workshops and other programs.
**\<parasew[m]\>** Here are pics how this looked last year: https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/parasew-36c3/wiki/35c3-in-pictures
**\<parasew[m]\>** Txmr and nevvton are already in leipzig and the setup is working great!
**\<parasew[m]\>** Here are some images on the stage setup:
**\<parasew[m]\>** http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/1photo\_2019-12-21_16-47-48.jpg
**\<parasew[m]\>** http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/1photo\_2019-12-21_16-45-32.jpg
**\<parasew[m]\>** And this is how it will look in the end (pics of last year)
**\<parasew[m]\>** http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/photo\_2019-12-21_17-16-33.jpg
**\<parasew[m]\>** http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/photo\_2019-12-21_17-16-36.jpg
**\<parasew[m]\>** the whole cluster can hold about 200 people.
**\<parasew[m]\>** This year will be live streamed! Livestreaming will be happening from 2019-12-27 17:00 CET onwards (other days from 13:00 CET) and will be on the monero community channel:
**\<parasew[m]\>** https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup
**\<monerobux\>** [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com
**\<parasew[m]\>** This year the streaming and recording is coordinated by @getzi (a professional who also worked with the apertus open source cinema camera and with riat before) and @ajs!
**\<sgp\_\>** (13 UTC is 7am CT)
**\<parasew[m]\>** We will have a very amazing show; here is a demo of our stream overlays http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/cdc\_streamtest.mp4
**\<parasew[m]\>** There will be a monerotalk (remote) interviews with the speakers as well (just like on the last konferenco), so expect a lot of content!
**\<nevvton[m]\>** woop woop !! love it!!
**\<selsta\>** looks awesome :D
**\<thunderosa\>** nice!
**\<parasew[m]\>** :D
**\<almutasim\>** Looks and sounds great!
**\<parasew[m]\>** Program and website will be online after this weekend, and will be on the usual place at https://decentral.community
**\<rehrar\>** goodness there's so much to done and so much to do
**\<parasew[m]\>** @rehrar, do you want to give a short sneak peek of the site?
**\<rehrar\>** sure. But I don't have the URL on hand. Sec.
**\<parasew[m]\>** Here is a sneak peek of the site so far: http://107.191.41.147/ (content still missing, me and rehrar are on it)
**\<nevvton[m]\>** http://107.191.41.147/
**\<rehrar\>** Ay, you go it.
**\<parasew[m]\>** current state of the content is here (but is missing the program still)
**\<parasew[m]\>** http://parasew.com/dl/36c3/cdc\_text_v1.md
**\<rehrar\>** Yeah, I'm working on that over the next couple of days. Adding assemblies, adding About section. Adding the livestream.
**\<almutasim\>** Nice!
**\<parasew[m]\>** From tomorrow onwards, there will be further announcements regarding speakers, workshops and bonus program! (hidden gems!)
**\<msvb-fab\>** The website is quite nice so far.
\* ErCiccione afk for like 15 minutes
**\<parasew[m]\>** nevvton: can you give some spoilers?
**\<nevvton[m]\>** sure..
**\<nevvton[m]\>** its all about the hidden gems, right
**\<nevvton[m]\>** So we arrived safely in leipzig and started
**\<nevvton[m]\>** setting up our cluster:
**\<nevvton[m]\>** everything is running great so far..
**\<nevvton[m]\>** stage arrived.. and yes its already being rigged and
**\<nevvton[m]\>** mounted,LED light equipment, sound equipment..
**\<nevvton[m]\>** so we're actually ahead of time this year.. thats a good thing.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** currently txmr, na\_tt_i and polto from switzerland
**\<nevvton[m]\>** are around helping + plus netg [not to forget overall].
**\<nevvton[m]\>** so we have a couple of early hands here in leipzig making this easier...
**\<nevvton[m]\>** -- txmr is actuallyx right next to me .. so i'd also dedicate him some time .-...
**\<nevvton[m]\>** @txmr
**\<txmr[m]\>** yeah..
**\<txmr[m]\>** we're looking forward having a great time
**\<txmr[m]\>** regarding some 42+ speakers
**\<txmr[m]\>** that signed up in total
**\<txmr[m]\>** throughout the last days of 2019.
**\<txmr[m]\>** streaming links will follow, in case you cannot make it to
**\<txmr[m]\>** leipzig.
**\<txmr[m]\>** regarding our daily activites at CDC-Cluster @36c3, Leipzig -><br />
**\<txmr[m]\>** i will post all the necessary information,
**\<nevvton[m]\>** or i could do, :)
**\<txmr[m]\>** timetables and live streaming links
**\<txmr[m]\>** daily the follwing days on respective social media channels.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** but generally we're in good company here.. ( besides: fun fact
**\<nevvton[m]\>** there was a WW2 bomb being found --:) in leipzig.. yes this happens sometimes
**\<nevvton[m]\>** so .. yeah .. part of the city (tiny 1km radius) was evacuated.. we were not within the zone :)
**\<nevvton[m]\>** but people are friendly.
**\<txmr[m]\>** very friendly
**\<almutasim\>** All kinds of excitement.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** we get big props for lasts years work ..
**\<almutasim\>** 42+ speakers is fantastic.
**\<parasew[m]\>** almutasim: it could be more, there are still some submissions missing that i know of.
**\<parasew[m]\>** If you are attending C3, please enter your workshops and presentations ASAP here: https://frab.riat.at
**\<nevvton[m]\>** people are looking forward to this years speakers, all things privacy, hardware related things.. -- everything that defines the core values of our community
**\<nevvton[m]\>** we have an e-scooter (for those that are not familiar with the size of this exhibition ground - its huge!! ) saving us energy
**\<nevvton[m]\>** and its covered with monero stickers.. so people are already psyched to meet everyone at our cluster ..
**\<nevvton[m]\>** :)
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for the updates, looks like it will be a good time
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else before I proceed?
**\<parasew[m]\>** This all was made possible through the CCS and a lot of voluntary work. Thanks to everyone who supported this!
**\<txmr[m]\>** i further want to emphasise on the CCS contributors
**\<txmr[m]\>** Thank you all!
**\<nevvton[m]\>** yes also from my side:
\* nevvton[m] sent a long message: \< https://matrix.org/\_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oinctLynLkmCdxaLgbFYHhhu \>
**\<almutasim\>** Lucky attendees! And lucky the rest of us with streaming.
**\<sgp\_\>** nice, good luck! look forward to watching the streams
**\<sgp\_\>** f. Hardware workgroup
**\<nevvton[m]\>** <sgp\_ "nice, good luck! look forward to"> ty
**\<msvb-fab\>** Sorry, no report from the hardware team. I'm in the lab right now printing enclosures.
**\<sgp\_\>** msvb wanted to give an update. are you here and can make it fast? Otherwise there will most likely be an update during the conference
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, keep working msvb-fab :)
**\<msvb-fab\>** Otherwise, unless anyone has a specific question please move on to the next topic.
**\<sgp\_\>** g. Konferenco workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** pebx continues to search for a Berlin location. He has focused only on locations that allow our own AV and catering.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Almost the same thing, my files are not with me so I can't give details of last week's Berlin venue scouting.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** i casn totally help as being a berliner..
**\<sgp\_\>** nothing else to add here at the moment, other than to contact him on Reddit u/pebx if interested
**\<nevvton[m]\>** i will contaxct pebx
**\<sgp\_\>** h. Monero Research Lab
**\<msvb-fab\>** Does anybody have a specific question about Konferenco 2020 venue choice?
**\<parasew[m]\>** yes, what is the venue choice
**\<sgp\_\>** msvb-fab: after speaking with pebx, it seems like the venue isn't chosen yet and that a few options are still being contacted
**\<msvb-fab\>** The choice follows a report which is not stable yet. The chioce has not been made.
**\<parasew[m]\>** why not university? the venues looked expensive.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Both universities have denied.
**\<parasew[m]\>** lol
**\<msvb-fab\>** And BBC denied, so those three are not part of the report.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** so.--.
**\<msvb-fab\>** Not BBC, rather BCC. Berlin Congress Center.
**\<nevvton[m]\>** i certainly can help..
**\<nevvton[m]\>** i have a couple of good options in mind..
**\<msvb-fab\>** Thanks nevvton, unless there are more detailed questions we can move on sgp.
**\<sgp\_\>** next steps are to contact pebx and to get a more direct line of communication, potentially on Wire
**\<nevvton[m]\>** :)
**\<sgp\_\>** h. Monero Research Lab
**\<sgp\_\>** Surae made significant progress on his matching code, with preliminary results now available for validation. Sarang did some moon math. Their meeting logs are on Github under meta.
**\<sgp\_\>** oh, and a nerew version of clsag is almost out
**\<sgp\_\>** \*new
**\<sgp\_\>** attend their Monday meetings if you're interested in following their progress
**\<rehrar\>** good stuff coming?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm going to skip 5. open ideas time since we're already over
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: yeah, more work on triptytch (or however it's spelled) too
**\<sgp\_\>** A few final things:
**\<sgp\_\>** I need help updating this roadmap for Monero 2019 and 2020. Please contribute any major items I missed (especially website changes) https://cryptpad.fr/code/#/2/code/edit/AvAp1k1pPjW4lZ2lO3A4rr9e/
**\<sgp\_\>** I worked on 36c3 and GUI tasks this week instead of writing up a draft of the emergency response process. I will focus on this more the next two weeks (lower productivity this week). Hopefully we can discuss it during the next meeting :)
**\<sgp\_\>** Anything final before we conclude?
**\<thunderosa\>** Merry Christmas Monero!
**\<rehrar\>** merry christmas, happy holidays
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed
**\<Jae\>** Let's make 2020 the year of Monero :D
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Coffee Chat: Christmas Day edition?
**\<sgp\_\>** (kidding)
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 4 January at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** There will be NO COFFEE CHAT NEXT WEEK since we will already have livestreamed content for 36c3. The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday January 11 at 17:00 UTC.
**\<Jae\>** Where will be the meeting?
**\<sgp\_\>** Jae: community meeting is here (#monero-community)
**\<Jae\>** Oh, ok
**\<sgp\_\>** Coffee Chat is on YouTube/Jitsi
**\<Jae\>** I thought there was in a physical place x)
**\<Jae\>** this\*
**\<sgp\_\>** haha not quite
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-01-04
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / needmonero90
---
# Logs
**\<needmonero90\>** 0. Introduction
**\<needmonero90\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<needmonero90\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/424
**\<needmonero90\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<ArticMine\>** Hi
**\<needmonero90\>** 1. Greetings
**\<ajs\>** hi
**\<needmonero90\>** hi
**\<needmonero90\>** Anyone else here this fine day? :D
**\<anhdres\>** hi
**\<rehrar\>** I
**\<needmonero90\>** that makes 5! That is more than three
**\<needmonero90\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<needmonero90\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<needmonero90\>** Cake Wallet android was just released.
**\<needmonero90\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<needmonero90\>** wait
**\<needmonero90\>** didnt mean to send all that at once
**\<asymptotically\>** belated greetings from me :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Cake Wallet android was just released! Nice work to the cakewallet team, you're going to be a thorn in my side recommending wallets now. I can't just say monerujo without thinking anymore
**\<needmonero90\>** diversity!
**\<endogenic\>** mymonero android soon
**\<needmonero90\>** yeah but who uses mymonero anyways
**\<SerHack\>** Hi
**\<needmonero90\>** :)
**\<needmonero90\>** hello!
**\<needmonero90\>** Other than cakewallet, do we have any community updates to share?
**\<endogenic\>** needmonero90: a lot of mrl members use it
**\<endogenic\>** we dont even have to pay them
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<needmonero90\>** I've been checked out the past week or two due to family and holiday considerations, so I have no updates from the moderation side of things
**\<rottensox\>** o/
**\<needmonero90\>** \o
**\<msvb-mob\>** o/
**\<rottensox\>** msvb-mob is here!
**\<rottensox\>** k, let's go to point 3 then.
**\<needmonero90\>** 3. CCS updates!
**\<needmonero90\>** research funding for 2020 Q1 (575.5 / 695 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/sarang-2020-q1.html
**\<needmonero90\>** The MRL are the grease that keeps our wheels turning, without them we would rapidly grind to a halt
**\<needmonero90\>** If you're reading this, and want to contribute to Monero, the MRL is one of the biggest impact things you can donate to
**\<rottensox\>** aye.
**\<needmonero90\>** Don't think, just do
**\<needmonero90\>** 3 months part time work on Getmonero.org (5.3 / 174 XMR)
**\<needmonero90\>** I don't have the link handy atm
**\<needmonero90\>** Who is this for, rehrar?
**\<rottensox\>** ErCiccione[m], i reckon.
**\<rehrar\>** ye
**\<needmonero90\>** Aha
**\<SerHack\>** https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website-jan-march.html
**\<needmonero90\>** Great, thank you
**\<rehrar\>** sure
**\<rehrar\>** fund both
**\<needmonero90\>** The getmonero website is the portal to the hearts and minds of the masses, and if it isn't pretty and functional, we're going to lose people before they've even started
**\<needmonero90\>** Not everyone is a power user who can spend hours diving for the data they need, erciccione is doing valuable work too :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Also localization, that's big too
**\<needmonero90\>** Any other CCS comments before moving on?
**\<SerHack\>** Anyone who contributes to Monero and its community is doing valuable work.
**\<needmonero90\>** Agree
**\<rottensox\>** :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Okay, moving on!
**\<needmonero90\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<needmonero90\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<needmonero90\>** There were some new networking developments and discussions about how to better communicate between the daemon/wallet and an anonymity network
**\<needmonero90\>** I presume this is in reference to a swappable layer like tor or i2p
**\<needmonero90\>** Would certainly make things easier
**\<needmonero90\>** Anyone here who participated in that discussion?
\* needmonero90 may be going too quickly
**\<needmonero90\>** Is this too fast?
**\<rehrar\>** no
**\<rehrar\>** nobody typically responds to anything anyways
**\<ArticMine\>** No it is fine
**\<rehrar\>** #monerocommunity
**\<rottensox\>** exactly...
**\<rottensox\>** just keep on going.
**\<rottensox\>** these meetings are pretty much a refreshing stance of things...
**\<midipoet\>** are we done yet?
**\<needmonero90\>** Yep, still, I don't want a recorded log of my incompetence :)
**\<rottensox\>** no lol.
**\<midipoet\>** so slow
**\<rottensox\>** you're a sweetheart cutie needmonero90.
**\<rottensox\>** xoxo
**\<rottensox\>** lol midipoet.
**\<needmonero90\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<needmonero90\>** ErCiccione any update?
**\<needmonero90\>** I assume he isn't present
**\<rehrar\>** don't think he's here today. Didn't even comment on his CCS proposal when up for "discussion"
**\<needmonero90\>** Due to the previous ping
**\<rehrar\>** Sorry. I'm trying to act like a typical peanut gallery to give you the real experience needmoney90
**\<needmonero90\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<needmonero90\>** There was a point release (no binaries yet for the newbs) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/releases/tag/v0.15.0.3
**\<rehrar\>** yeah, I saw that the other day
**\<rehrar\>** selsta?
**\<needmonero90\>** Wen binaries
**\<selsta\>** no idea
**\<selsta\>** :)
**\<needmonero90\>** What got fixed and added?
**\<needmonero90\>** I assume just fixed
\* needmonero90 waits a bit
**\<selsta\>** See the release notes, mostly bug fixes and a new blur effect when the wallet it locked.
**\<selsta\>** Also there were crashes which are now fixed.
**\<rehrar\>** blur effects
**\<rehrar\>** it also says that the sidebar was redone?
**\<needmonero90\>** Blur effects are big
**\<needmonero90\>** Game changer
**\<rottensox\>** stealth mode.
**\<sgp\_\>** We need a better name for blur effects. Something easier to shill
**\<rottensox\>** invisible mode.
**\<sgp\_\>** Nice
**\<needmonero90\>** Oh you're back
**\<selsta\>** anyway no ETA for bins
**\<sgp\_\>** Kinda, on mobile
**\<selsta\>** can be weeks if there will be any lol
**\<selsta\>** hopefully
**\<rottensox\>** .soon
**\<monerobux\>** Two weeks™
**\<selsta\>** (not xiphon’s fault, he had bins ready almost 2 weeks ago)
**\<rehrar\>** selsta, you're the new binary guy?
**\<needmonero90\>** Xiphon\*
**\<selsta\>** no
**\<rehrar\>** oh. So what are we waiting on?
**\<needmonero90\>** Moon
**\<rehrar\>** bf to sign and someone to put on the site?
**\<rehrar\>** who are we waiting on right now?
**\<selsta\>** core team can comment on this if they want
**\<selsta\>** Snipa will do builds going forward
**\<selsta\>** but he has no env yet
**\<selsta\>** so no ETA
**\<rehrar\>** gotcha
**\<needmonero90\>** Alright, time to move on?
**\<rottensox\>** ye.
**\<needmonero90\>** d. Outreach workgroup
**\<needmonero90\>** The RPC-Pay and Chinese perspective articles are nearly ready to go
**\<needmonero90\>** Oops
**\<needmonero90\>** OK, is anyone from outreach here?
**\<rottensox\>** thunderosa
**\<rottensox\>** xmrhaelan is usually around too, but seem like they're idle...
**\<needmonero90\>** [crickets]
**\<thunderosa\>** Yes, we're putting the final touches on both.
**\<rottensox\>** there ya go.
**\<needmonero90\>** Hey!
**\<thunderosa\>** Hey
**\<needmonero90\>** What are the articles on? Specifically the second one
**\<thunderosa\>** The plan is to drop the Chinese piece tomorrow am....TBD on the RPC-Pay piece,...we were looking at putting press support on that one.
**\<needmonero90\>** OK! Looking forward to reading them when they come out.
**\<thunderosa\>** Hey sorry,...didn't catch that it was a meeting
**\<thunderosa\>** So Chinese Persepective piece, Chinese author:
**\<thunderosa\>** https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-china-west.php
**\<thunderosa\>** https://www.monerooutreach.org/1-01/2020-003.php
**\<thunderosa\>** We're wanting to publish both languages at once,...so we're getting our Chinese side in shape.
**\<rottensox\>** :D
**\<thunderosa\>** https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/RPC-Pay.php
**\<thunderosa\>** We'd especially like critical feedback on the RPC-Pay piece.
**\<thunderosa\>** There's more technical content in that one and we want to make sure we're accurate in all things.
**\<needmonero90\>** I'll take a look after the meeting
**\<selsta\>** moo should read he RPC pay article
**\<needmonero90\>** Is that it for outreach updates?
**\<thunderosa\>** Ah shit there's a whole bunch of stuff,...but I'm really not prepared :)
**\<needmonero90\>** That's fine!
**\<rehrar\>** just type a thi8ng or two
**\<thunderosa\>** We're working on implementing the RPC-Pay stuff,...using Primo and using that to incentivize contributors
**\<thunderosa\>** Basically a straight up rev share for anyone who makes cool stuff
**\<thunderosa\>** I'll have a better report in a few weeks,...but that's the big push right now.
**\<needmonero90\>** Primo is the hashing micropayment system right?
**\<thunderosa\>** Thinking that the community calendar and merhcant directory could also reward it's contributors and maintainers.
**\<thunderosa\>** Yeah
**\<thunderosa\>** it's an Apache module
**\<thunderosa\>** We're getting out node up and then we're going to plug that baby in
**\<thunderosa\>** and see if it s works like we think it might
**\<needmonero90\>** So it's in beta atm?
**\<thunderosa\>** By next week we should have a proof on concept,..it's involving a server migration and stuff so that's bogging things down a bit. But the other side is looking good.
**\<sgp\_\>** Can someone make an aggregate RPC-Pay program where payments can be allocated to a user ID that's registered with the system? Is that possible?
**\<thunderosa\>** Pre-beta :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Ooo
**\<thunderosa\>** Yeah, that's the idea,..we're data based in our content
**\<thunderosa\>** and the CRM can track the traffic share with no problem
**\<sgp\_\>** Then it effectively serves as a mining pool. Very cool thunderosa
**\<thunderosa\>** and any author can claim their share or donate it to a workgroup or devs or whatever
**\<thunderosa\>** kinda,..I hadn't thought of it that way,...but you're right,...it's a content mining pool
**\<rottensox\>** fun stuff.
**\<thunderosa\>** if it works,..I thought MoneroMemes could try it out too
**\<thunderosa\>** I'll be setting up a repo in the next few weeks,...it'll all be there.
**\<needmonero90\>** Cool!
**\<thunderosa\>** seems like we're doing other stuff too,..but that's the big unifying thing right now and all I got for an update :)
**\<needmonero90\>** Alright great, onwards!
**\<needmonero90\>** 36C3
**\<needmonero90\>** The 36c3 was a success in many ways, attracting large crowds. All talks were streamed here: https://youtube.com/c/monerocommunityworkgroup
**\<monerobux\>** [ Monero Community Workgroup - YouTube ] - youtube.com
**\<rottensox\>** hmm?
**\<rottensox\>** i thought it was hardware next...
**\<xmrhaelan\>** I came on to find hyc and saw this. Thanks Thunderosa!
**\<rottensox\>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/424
**\<needmonero90\>** That's f
**\<needmonero90\>** In my list
**\<rottensox\>** lol. alrite.
**\<needmonero90\>** E is 36c3 unless sgp\_ linked the wrong text
**\<needmonero90\>** To me
**\<needmonero90\>** Anyways
**\<midipoet\>** what stops primo from being deployed maliciously (sorry if stupid question)
**\<needmonero90\>** How was 36c3?
**\<kinghat\>** finally made it through all the talks. now i need to go back and watch the defcon talks. is there an official playlist or just the one sgp\_ put together?
**\<needmonero90\>** Oh back up
**\<sgp\_\>** I made the notes in haste, sorry
**\<ajs\>** 54 talks, 21 hours of content
**\<sgp\_\>** kinghat: the events were recorded locally but need to be sliced
**\<needmonero90\>** Sorry midipoet, I moved too quickly
**\<rottensox\>** oof.
**\<sgp\_\>** I offered to slice them if I get the raw files
**\<sgp\_\>** But I don't have them
**\<midipoet\>** no, that's ok... continue on. just processing the primo / RPC-Pay info
**\<sgp\_\>** kinghat: for Defcon, use the official Decfoncobference YouTube channel playlist
**\<sgp\_\>** \*conference
**\<needmonero90\>** Decfon
**\<needmonero90\>** Lol
**\<kinghat\>** this was the playlist i bookmarked: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBm0oAEyRxZIMFxCwNNmybBH
**\<monerobux\>** [ Defcon 2019 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Lol
**\<needmonero90\>** That mobile keyboard
**\<sgp\_\>** https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9fPq3eQfaaBiCOF12ZYejtj21sI1jm0I
**\<monerobux\>** [ DEF CON 27 Monero Village - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Use that one
**\<needmonero90\>** I have yet to see any of the c3 talks
**\<rottensox\>** aye.
**\<rottensox\>** needmonero90: highly recommend first day, thoroughly.
**\<rottensox\>** was a great one.
**\<needmonero90\>** Any specifics?
**\<rottensox\>** all to be honest, but closing keynote by daniel was outstanding.
**\<rottensox\>** bummed he didn't finish all the slides...
**\<rottensox\>** 2nd day i just caught the last two talks, and they were good as well.
**\<rottensox\>** the rest i haven't watched.
**\<kinghat\>** sgp\_: are these not "sliced up" or ami missing something?
**\<rottensox\>** too much content to catch up with.
**\<needmonero90\>** Story of my life, rotten
**\<kinghat\>** just give your life an RSS
**\<rottensox\>** i am the man of rss feeds sir.
**\<rottensox\>** okokok we're digressing.
**\<rottensox\>** what's next?
**\<rottensox\>** needmonero90: these two from day 2, were good. https://frab.riat.at/en/36C3/public/events/123.html https://frab.riat.at/en/36C3/public/events/163.html
**\<ajs\>** locally recorded video will be sliced into individual presentations and uploaded to ccc media server. no word on ETA.
**\<rottensox\>** as i said, the two closing talks of day 2.
**\<rottensox\>** ajs based. thank you very much for the livestream and a/v stuff. don't think these events would be as great if it weren't because of you.
**\<rottensox\>** round of applauses for papa ajs.
**\<msvb-mob\>** \<clap\>\<clap\>
**\<rottensox\>** nm90 went mia? lol.
**\<needmonero90\>** sorry
**\<needmonero90\>** stepped away from my keyboard for a moment
**\<ajs\>** thanks, but most of the hard work was done by a pro videographer and sound sound engineer that helped out
**\<rottensox\>** nice, glad to hear that.
**\<needmonero90\>** so, msvb-mob msvb-lab you there?
**\<msvb-mob\>** Yes.
**\<needmonero90\>** great
**\<needmonero90\>** f. Hardware workgroup
**\<msvb-mob\>** The hardware team reports late stage beta mechanical engineering, where FDM prin
**\<msvb-mob\>** ts of a enclosure are finished and injection moulding design as well.
**\<msvb-mob\>** In parallel, work is in mid stage (about a month left) of product development and packaged documentation.
**\<msvb-mob\>** That's all, remember there is a #monero-hardware channel for questions and answe
**\<msvb-mob\>** rs. Any questions on mechanical engineering or product development?
**\<rottensox\>** msvb-mob: how are the things looking like for the dev kit of kastelo, sir?
**\<rottensox\>** msvb-mob: are you alright? i was bummed when you didn't show up for your 36c3 talk. :(
**\<msvb-mob\>** rottensox: Good, we're in product development which includes a lot of boring things like country of origin, taxes, certificates, exceptions, and logistics.
**\<msvb-mob\>** That's in product development, I mean.
**\<rottensox\>** oof, all the paperwork... can only imagine.
**\<rottensox\>** thanks for doing that though.
**\<msvb-mob\>** My 36C3 talk was not accepted, unfortunately.
**\<rottensox\>** oh, i see.
**\<msvb-mob\>** Any questions regarding the stages of hardware engineering we are in now?
**\<rehrar\>** Your talk at the CDC was accepted and you were on the schedule.
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: I mean it was not accepted to me, no acceptance message of any kind.
**\<rehrar\>** Ah, I see.
**\<needmonero90\>** :(
**\<needmonero90\>** so the hardware workgroup is currently working on what? kastello, badges for defcon?
**\<needmonero90\>** any other neat projects in the works?
**\<msvb-mob\>** needmonero90: Right now no badges (except outside of the Monero Community.) Just Kastelo.
**\<ArticMine\>** You had to log into frab.riat.at and check
**\<msvb-mob\>** needmonero90: Other projects are outside Monero scope, so nothing to report.
**\<msvb-mob\>** ArticMine: My proposal was erased from frab.
**\<msvb-mob\>** It was probably rejected, but I never received a rejection message either.
**\<ArticMine\>** Before or after the talk time?
**\<msvb-mob\>** needmonero90: Konferenco is next.
**\<rottensox\>** yeah... let's move on, shall we?
**\<needmonero90\>** ok!
**\<ArticMine\>** ok
**\<rottensox\>** none of what we say we'll roll back time and make it happen.
**\<needmonero90\>** g. Konferenco workgroup
**\<needmonero90\>** progress is slow and ongoing
**\<msvb-mob\>** First, remember that there is a #monero-konferenco channel for detailed conversa
**\<msvb-mob\>** tions.
**\<needmonero90\>** I haven't been involved in the conversation, I need to tune in
**\<msvb-mob\>** Scouting venues for the Konferenco 2020 has mostly concluded, and the results are reported in project management task number 40.
**\<msvb-mob\>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-konferenco/task/40/
\* rottensox clicks
**\<msvb-mob\>** A lot of details are not public, like the exact prices and conditions for each venue. This information is offered to the person who takes the boss role, CEO or whatever.
**\<rehrar\>** Are these details not public at the request of the venues?
**\<msvb-mob\>** Including many megaoctets (giga?) of photos and media.
**\<needmonero90\>** None require catering, right?
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: Other way around, to publish details I need to get permission from about twenty people who are sometimes responsive only after three weeks of repetition emails.
**\<msvb-mob\>** needmonero90: I think only one venue requires in house catering, let me try to find out which one...
**\<rehrar\>** Ah, you are taking the stance of privacy first unless given permission to share these details by the venues
**\<needmonero90\>** private by default is the monero way
**\<msvb-mob\>** Kulturbrauerei requires in house catering, like about 4500 EUR of costs.
**\<rehrar\>** yes, but if they didn't request this info be private, then it hinders the planning to not share imo
**\<rehrar\>** I'm certain that anyone else who would make a request would get prices and stuff all the same
**\<needmonero90\>** its a courtesy thing, this is their business model
**\<rehrar\>** I see.
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: I assume that nobody will offer to lead the project and that there will be no Konferenco 2020 for that reason. As soon as a boss appears, they can choose to publish all the nonpublic information (at great risk to our common future of course.)
**\<needmonero90\>** Either that or we decide on bounds for pricing and capacity, and trust the organizer to optimize for venue
**\<msvb-mob\>** I really don't think there will be a Konferenco 2020, but I'm going to keep distilling and perfecting our venue scouting information until a final report as well as party place and accommodation hotel is clearly chosen.
**\<rehrar\>** In the event that nobody offers to lead the project for Europe, I and potentially others will make an attempt to make it happen in the USA or Mexico. :)
**\<needmonero90\>** if rehrar is in, he's gonna rope me into it to
**\<rehrar\>** EU peeps step up plz. ;)
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: Do you have a strategy for not waiting too long (for a European leader to appear) so that a north american event is not too late in planning and therefore cancelled as well?
**\<rehrar\>** Wait until end of Q1
**\<kinghat\>** msvb-mob: maybe you could do some version of your talk in an upcoming coffee chat?
**\<rehrar\>** if nothing, plan for Q3 or Q4.
**\<msvb-mob\>** kinghat: I'm already scheduled to do the same talk at Disobey 2020 and FOSDEM.
**\<binaryFate\>** shit schoolboy mistake with time, missed meeting
**\<rehrar\>** Even if nobody steps up for this year, all the info you've gathered is still valuable msvb-mob. It can be available for whoever wants to run one in Europe in later years.
**\<kinghat\>** very cool msvb-mob 👍
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: Sounds good, the schedule method. To not wait too long.
**\<msvb-mob\>** needmonero90: Next topic?
**\<needmonero90\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<needmonero90\>** It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
**\<msvb-mob\>** ...or does ajs have any reporting on Konferenco, as he has done a lot of work as well?
**\<needmonero90\>** we're running a bit over, so I think we can skip this part
**\<msvb-mob\>** binaryFate: You're fired.
**\<binaryFate\>** I can comment on GUI builds after meeting is over if anyone is interested
**\<needmonero90\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<needmonero90\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 18 January at 17:00 UTC.
**\<needmonero90\>** The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday January 11 at 17:00 UTC. sgp\_ will not be present, so he will need someone else to host. Please DM him if you can help, it will probably end up being rehrar or myself.
**\<ajs\>** I've made some a/v inquiries and set up a telegram group at https://t.me/joinchat/PmC9ihaLP0UZF-bfkD36CA
\* needmonero90 waits for the konferenco discussion to finish
**\<needmonero90\>** sorry, I keep moving on and then people come back :)
**\<rehrar\>** I always do this
**\<ajs\>** to continue talk on konferenco, pop in #monero-konferenco or the telegram group
**\<needmonero90\>** thanks :)
**\<rottensox\>** \<msvb-mob\> kinghat: I'm already scheduled to do the same talk at Disobey 2020 and FOSDEM.
**\<rottensox\>** wow, do link us to such talks when they get posted on their respective schedules, please.
**\<rottensox\>** will gladly tune in the livestream or recorded individual links.
**\<needmonero90\>** ok guys, meeting is running 15m over :)
**\<needmonero90\>** I think that covers most of it, we can finish the rest of the discussion afterwards.
**\<needmonero90\>** I need to get food
**\<sgp\_\>** Thanks so much needmonero90!
**\<needmonero90\>** https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tZfeu1nj/
**\<needmonero90\>** oops
**\<needmonero90\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<needmonero90\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-01-18
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/428
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<ErCiccione\>** Ciao
**\<almutasim\>** Hi.
**\<sarang\>** Hello
**\<v1docq47[m]\>** Hi
**\<netrik182\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** ping rehrar
**\<sgp\_\>** welcome everyone
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for showing up 30 minutes earlier than usual :)
**\<vtnerd\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<rehrar\>** Present.
**\<sgp\_\>** A new edition was just out yesterday I believe
**\<sgp\_\>** The community planning for the Konferenco has been underway. Updates on that later.
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<sgp\_\>** apparently not :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** 3 months part time work on Getmonero.org https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website-jan-march.html (92.42 / 174 XMR)
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Locha Mesh, private transactions and sync over a resilient long-range radio mesh network https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/115
**\<rehrar\>** We're switching to Fridays.
**\<sgp\_\>** there were some concerns about the cost and project management (clear project milestrones) on this one
\* binaryFate lurking
**\<sgp\_\>** the total amount was reduced to 150 xmr
**\<cankerwort\>** hola
**\<sgp\_\>** any other comments? thanks to everyone who left comments on gitlab
**\<vtnerd\>** yikes, is there any more technical details on what they plan to do?
**\<sgp\_\>** vtnerd: I am not sure, but I recommend asking on gitlab since they have been responsive so far
**\<binaryFate\>** do they plan to post an updated proposal soon?
\* needmonero90 lurks while sleeping
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: they already updated the amount
**\<vtnerd\>** ah crud yeah they have a link. I can't respond now because this is the first I've paid attention to it. My primary concern would be the in the routing code, its not trivial for this type of thing
**\<binaryFate\>** most comments were strongly suggesting to be more specific on milestones
**\<sgp\_\>** they focused a bit more on the goals and roadmap
**\<sgp\_\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/115/diffs?commit_id=1031a2e444255e5fa8138601ef746e8b37900a18
**\<vtnerd\>** hmm its very much a wip I think
**\<vtnerd\>** my only comment is that this has more risk than the usual CCS for monero feature
**\<binaryFate\>** agree. On the other hand this will have visibility beyond Monero circles.
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks vtnerd, please ask specific questions on gitlab too so that the proposal can get better
**\<ErCiccione\>** I haven't had time to look at the proposal after mu last comment, but i see that one of the milestones is about getting the localization workgroup translate their docs
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's very unlikely to happen
**\<vtnerd\>** yes, if it works ... very awesome
**\<ErCiccione\>** i don't really think we have the resources for that, we already struggle for our own stuff
**\<rehrar\>** what would it mean to take this on as Monero Project project?
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: have they given any indication they have any interest in that?
**\<rehrar\>** If they haven't, then I wouldn't really be for funding this.
**\<sgp\_\>** explain please
**\<cankerwort\>** The tech sounds awesome but I'd be interested in practical limitation estimated like time to broadcast a transaction and range
**\<rehrar\>** explain? hmmm...
**\<cankerwort\>** although the name is not even in esperanto
**\<rehrar\>** Well, I can see how developing this tech might be good somewhat, but it's kind of general in its application (not really Monero-only focused) as I understand.
**\<rehrar\>** and if it's something that can benefit a lot of other projects, Monero is fronting a good amount of the bill instead of others.
**\<rehrar\>** So a way to offset this cost is to have it be a Monero Project project. Similar to OpenAlias. It benefits others if they want it, but it's distinctly "From Monero people"
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: : I think requiring that the CCS only gives $$$ to "Monero Project" projects is far too restrictive and is really a new precedent, so I'm curious if you're focused on that part or the main nature of the project's goal (Monero-focued or elsewhere with Monero as a feature)
**\<rehrar\>** the marketing aspect of that offset the cost of its creation.
**\<ArticMine\>** Bandwidth is my question
**\<sgp\_\>** my recommendation then is to ask if they want to do that, but I would personally understand if they don't want to
**\<needmonero90\>** I am against the proposal from a sustainability perspective. Funding a development \*team* is not the goal imo, I think we should strive for funding key people for projects that already have a decentralized/communal ethos. If they can't get developers without paying them, we won't be able to bootstrap the system to work without money greasing the wheels constantly
**\<needmonero90\>** I've been trying to find a way to express the value of 'coordinators' in the ecosystem that are always available to manage/direct/help their particular corner, so that the people working on the actual open source part have low friction
**\<needmonero90\>** And that kind of position carries with it an expectation of availability
**\<needmonero90\>** So paying for that particular position, once it emerges, is warranted, but not a full team
**\<needmonero90\>** The MRL is a good example, they're pretty much always available to talk about stuff, which is a big deal. They buffer ideas and conversations for the actually decentralized research team
**\<needmonero90\>** Who has no expectation of availability
**\<sgp\_\>** in this case "a full team" is 2 people I believe
**\<cankerwort\>** maybe an element of availability and/or dedication to reddit posts and updates would help?
**\<needmonero90\>** I mean, the issue is more about being available (for a decentralized project)
**\<sgp\_\>** we've spent a good amount of time on this topic, so let's only give it another minute or two
\* needmonero90 nods
**\<binaryFate\>** Seeing their interactions on twitter, they are getting \*a lot* of praise from bitcoin/grin/cypherpunk larger crypto space.
**\<binaryFate\>** In their own answers I did not see Monero mentioned a single time.
**\<binaryFate\>** So on the plus side I see a lot of potential visible PR for Monero in return for contributing, on the minus side I fear lack of Monero-specific dedication from the project team
**\<sgp\_\>** looks like marketing is an important part to focus on more
**\<rehrar\>** binaryFate ^
**\<sgp\_\>** without overstepping into the whole thing, I think it's appropriate to expect some recognition
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** i think if the proposal get approved, we should require recognition
**\<sgp\_\>** any final comments?
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** like put it clearly in the website and everywhere else that part of the development is funded by Monero
**\<ArticMine\>** That is reasonable
**\<binaryFate\>** if we make it more explicit on either part that this project is also about marketing for Monero, then the proposal has more value as we don't just look at the neaty greaty technicals
**\<sgp\_\>** cool, moving on
**\<sgp\_\>** v1docq47: video creation / translations into russian (february - july 2020) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/116
**\<sgp\_\>** in my personal opinion, this is a great proposal. I'm blown away by the amount of work they do
**\<sgp\_\>** and they recently made a Trello board so we can more easily see what they are working on
**\<sgp\_\>** I appreciate that a lot
**\<cankerwort\>** also, given grin/btc transactions are much smaller, their tech would work better with those coins
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** yeah, they are also very responsive to reviews and they contact me privately sometimes to have clarifications on the localization process. It's a +1 from me
**\<sgp\_\>** cool, any other comments?
**\<sgp\_\>** A Monero-centric Merchant Marketplace https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/117
**\<sgp\_\>** I don't personally have any comments here yet
**\<rehrar\>** Ten hours. Quite new. Let's get them to hop on this channel to answer some questions.
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah, also Reddit, etc
**\<sgp\_\>** we can proceed then
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione[m]: any update?
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** Not really. Soon i will make a general refresh of the strings in gui and cli
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** so that translators can work on the new merged stuff
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** i just want to note
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** that there are many suggested strings on weblate (translate.getmonero.org), but no reviewers to take a look at them,
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** so, after the refresh, i will make a call for translators and i ask the community at large to spread it as much as possible, because there is a lot to do
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** i will probably refresh the CLI first, because the GUI folks are changing a lot of strings and i want to wait for them to be finished first
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** that's it
**\<almutasim\>** Sounds great.
**\<netrik182\>** ErCiccione[m]: you can ping me too for translations
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks ErCiccione[m]
**\<sgp\_\>** b. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** There was a point release. Binaries are not out yet. https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/releases/tag/v0.15.0.3
**\<sgp\_\>** c. Outreach workgroup
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** netrik182: Great to hear that. Keep an eye on #monero-translations :)
**\<sgp\_\>** almutasim: can you give an update?
**\<almutasim\>** Sure. We put out a piece on Chinese perspective. We have a piece ready to go on RPC-Pay. But it is waiting on an infrastructure upgrade.
**\<netrik182\>** sgp: there's currently much effort being made to update server backends
**\<almutasim\>** We also have a piece started on paper wallets
**\<ErCiccione\>** About RPC-pay, would be great to have a moneropedia entry for that on getmonero.org
**\<sgp\_\>** https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-china-west.php
**\<ErCiccione\>** or a dev guide
**\<almutasim\>** That’s a good idea.
**\<ErCiccione\>** basically, should be on the website one way or another
**\<sgp\_\>** 100%
**\<almutasim\>** Right
**\<almutasim\>** It is really neat. We have been testing it with our servers.
**\<sgp\_\>** I look forward to seeing your system where people can get paid, where you effectively serve as a mining pool for RPC-pay
**\<sgp\_\>** any other updates?
**\<almutasim\>** we are working with endogenic on a nice document he has on Wallet auditing.
**\<almutasim\>** That is about it.
**\<sgp\_\>** nice
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Hardware workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** we can come back to this is msvb-lab is present
**\<sgp\_\>** e. Konferenco workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** lots of work has been ongoing here
**\<sgp\_\>** weekly meetings on Wednesdays at this point
**\<sgp\_\>** tentative date June 13-14
**\<sgp\_\>** we have a tentative location, but there are many outstanding questions
**\<sgp\_\>** it will be in Berlin
**\<sgp\_\>** any really quick konferenco questions? you can help out in #monero-konferenco
**\<sgp\_\>** events will be livestreamed as always
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, moving on then
**\<sgp\_\>** f. Monero Research Lab
**\<sarang\>** Hey there
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: can you give a brief update please?
**\<sgp\_\>** :)
**\<sarang\>** Sure
**\<sarang\>** Over the past couple of weeks or so, the Triptych preprint was posted and got some good coverage
**\<sarang\>** It's undergone some updates as well
**\<sarang\>** That's a linkable ring signature construction that scales well
**\<sarang\>** sgp\_ and I worked up a blag post on supply auditing that will appear soon
**\<sarang\>** I worked up some material on hidden timelocks, which could be useful but need more analysis
**\<binaryFate\>** tldr hidden timelocks?
**\<sarang\>** I am still waiting on any final review notes from suraeNoether on the CLSAG overhaul
**\<sarang\>** binaryFate: it's possible to replace "plaintext" timelocks with commitments and clever range proofs
**\<sarang\>** So you can show that the timelock for an (unknown) input has passed without revealing it
**\<binaryFate\>** to avoid standing out?
**\<sarang\>** Yep
**\<binaryFate\>** gotcha
**\<sarang\>** It was designed for DLSAG, but also has more general applicability
**\<almutasim\>** That sounds awesome.
**\<sarang\>** And the new CLSAG security model is being ported to DLSAG as well, along with some key aggregation math
**\<needmonero90\>** Math wizards
**\<almutasim\>** That sounds awesome.
**\<sarang\>** It remains to be seen if the increase in tx size would justify hidden timelocks
**\<sgp\_\>** re auditability, I need help making a better auditability image still, so let me know if you have ideas https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge_requests/1207
**\<sgp\_\>** I probably won't be able to personally work on this until Sunday or Monday
**\<sgp\_\>** g. Website workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: can we have another round of updates please? :)
**\<ErCiccione\>** gladly
**\<ErCiccione\>** so,
**\<almutasim\>** The wallet auditing document is related to that. A draft should go up on TAIGA tomorrow.
**\<ErCiccione\>** A lot is going on. We have a lot of pull requests ready to go and they should be merged at the beginning of next week
**\<ErCiccione\>** right now i'm focusing mostly on getting the website (at least the 'core' part of it) on Weblate, because right now making any change, means that that change needs to be ported to all languages
**\<ErCiccione\>** that results in a lot of time spent for that, which is very annoying for everybody and suck a lot of time that could be used for something more productive.
**\<ErCiccione\>** I'm running tests and Weblate seems to be reacting nicely, even if YAML files can be a bit troublesome and may happen that stuff don't get parsed
**\<ErCiccione\>** to avoid that i'm making extensive tests on my personal version, which is a copy of the instance hosted on translate.getmonero.org
**\<almutasim\>** That makes a lot of sense. I honestly don’t know how you handle the current situation.
**\<ErCiccione\>** almutasim: a lot of swearing
**\<almutasim\>** Ha!
**\<ErCiccione\>** ;)
**\<ErCiccione\>** but yeah it's extremely annoying, especially now that we are updating a lot of stuff and all languages need to be up to date
**\<sgp\_\>** cool, thanks for your sacrifice
**\<ErCiccione\>** so, that's the priority for me at the moment. After that i will try to put other parts of the website on weblate (footers and others), which structure make much harder for weblate to parse them and could require some substantial changes to the structure of those documents
**\<ErCiccione\>** :P
**\<ErCiccione\>** beside that, next will be the roadmap and the FAQ section
**\<ErCiccione\>** ah
**\<ErCiccione\>** the onion mirror should be up at the end of this month according to pony
**\<sgp\_\>** oooh fancy
**\<ErCiccione\>** Yeah, everything is ready and some prep PR already got merged
**\<ErCiccione\>** if people are interested in the development of the website, please join #monero-site and visit repo.getmonero.org
**\<ErCiccione\>** reviews of Pull requests and issues are very welcome
**\<sgp\_\>** I love the website workgroup since it's something anyone, regardless of skill, can help with. there are so many different things to do and an unlimited amount of necessary work
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks ErCiccione
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<almutasim\>** And with so much impact!
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm going to extend the meeting 10 minutes to fit open ideas time in here
**\<sgp\_\>** It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
**\<ErCiccione\>** absolutely sgp\_. I will try to improve our docs to make easier for newcomers to contribute
**\<rottensox\>** totes missed it but caught up already.
**\<ErCiccione\>** I think we should talk about /r/moneromining folks, it's annoying i know, but it's a discussion that must happen
**\<ErCiccione\>** for reference: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge\_requests/1195
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: indeed, this is going to be a long discussion though
**\<rottensox\>** i am with needmonero90 on opposing Locha Mesh for XMR.
**\<ErCiccione\>** yeah i understand sgp\_.
**\<rottensox\>** speaking from experience, nobody uses locha mesh in venezuela. nobody.
**\<ErCiccione\>** Right now we are removing the mention from getmonero, but we should do more
**\<sgp\_\>** background context: lead mod is acting rash and making racist statements, calling other people who disagree "snowflakes." Basically using the subreddit for their own purposes rather than for Monero mining
**\<sgp\_\>** I still need to reach out to my Reddit contacts, can do that today after the coffee chat
**\<sgp\_\>** but they probably won't do anything
**\<asymptotically\>** they wouldn't de-mod him for putting that kind of stuff in the description?
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90 is sitting on a backup subreddit we can switch to with a good amount of effort
**\<sgp\_\>** asymptotically: not really, Reddit is weird like that
**\<ErCiccione\>** i think the idea of the migration to /r/monerominer or whatever was called, is the only option we have left
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: yes, I think we shoudl prepare to transition to that
**\<sgp\_\>** maybe we should set aside specific discussion time
**\<sgp\_\>** to plan the transition
**\<ErCiccione\>** Yeah, we should.
**\<lza\_menace\>** I made the "A Monero-centric Merchant Marketplace" MR - I'm usually not available during these community meeting time blocks. Long form discussion in Gitlab/Reddit would be better
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: can you and needmonero90 please coordinate a time and invite others as needed?
**\<needmonero90\>** Sure.
**\<sgp\_\>** lza_menace: cool, please share on Reddit too
**\<ErCiccione\>** maybe a dedicated meeting or something. I know binaryfate wants to talk about the fact that the chats are getting a bit bad lately, we could include that discussion as well
**\<sgp\_\>** will help kick off discussion
**\<ErCiccione\>** Sure thing
**\<lza\_menace\>** sgp_: :thumbsup: - will do - yall have a great weekend
**\<sgp\_\>** " the chats are getting a bit bad lately, we could include that discussion as well" what chats?
**\<asymptotically\>** #monero-markets and #monero-pools going off-topic i think
**\<sgp\_\>** ah, got it
**\<binaryFate\>** ah yes. The channels. -pools, -markes and even sometimes #monero
**\<sgp\_\>** definitely a related item
**\<sgp\_\>** you all are welcome to use this channel for discussion. that's what it's for :)
**\<sgp\_\>** oh I have one thing I wanted to mention during open ideas time
**\<sgp\_\>** I have a self-hosted Wekan (open-source Trello copy) instance now available. I’m happy to add your project if you are interested. Please message me for details. I’ve found it more useful than Taiga for many project management needs.
**\<sgp\_\>** Here’s an example for the Konferenco: https://monero.sandcats.io/shared/f6usdnbIFv3mGp09hTFRkEbz38CHn2KHyM04V-Nhmp-
**\<sgp\_\>** anyone else have an open ideas topic? we're nearly out of time
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 1 February at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** A Coffee Chat begins shortly after this meeting: https://youtu.be/YqMcz3XOS6M
**\<sgp\_\>** please PM me ASAP if you can participate. I'll distribute Jitsi links right away
**\<sgp\_\>** The following Coffee Chat is on Saturday 8 February at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-02-01
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/435
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<thunderosa\>** hello
\* needmonero90 waves
**\<ArticMine\>** Hi
**\<SerHack\>** Hi
**\<sgp\_\>** welcome everyone
**\<sgp\_\>** sorry again for the delay
**\<sgp\_\>** next meeting at normal time (1 hour before this)
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<needmonero90\>** It's 18:00 on a Saturday, the regular crowd shuffles in
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'll take that as a no
**\<ArticMine\>** I gave a podcast in Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZaf5ps7Lzs&feature=youtu.be
**\<monerobux\>** [ Monero Swaps para anonimizar Bitcoin con ArticMine - L47 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** oh sweet, nice ArticMine!
**\<sgp\_\>** good stuff
**\<almutasim\>** Awesome.
**\<sgp\_\>** you should be on rottensox and anhdres's podcast
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** 3 months part time work on Getmonero.org https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/ErCiccione-website-jan-march.html (150.26 / 174 XMR)
**\<sgp\_\>** v1docq47: video creation / translations into russian (february - july 2020) (6.04 / 100 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/%20v1docq47-video-creation-translations-into-russian-(february-july-2020).html
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Locha Mesh, private transactions and sync over a resilient long-range radio mesh network https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/115
**\<sgp\_\>** lots of comments on this one over the weeks
**\<sgp\_\>** this specific proposal seems to have general support from binaryfate, selsta, and xmrhaelan
**\<sgp\_\>** among a few others
**\<sgp\_\>** and as far as I can tell, ErCiccione[m] and rehrar have outstanding concerns
**\<selsta\>** not really from my side
**\<rottensox\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge\_requests/115#note_8788
**\<selsta\>** they plan for recurring funding which I’m against
**\<needmonero90\>** Myself as well (concerns) but I have not vocalized them in the thread.
**\<rehrar\>** My concerns are mostly satisfied at this point.
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: against recurring, but you would be ok with this one? I'm trying to understand your viewpoint
**\<rehrar\>** I would be comfortable seeing this as a trial period. And if we like them and they like us, integrate them into our project.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: noted, thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90 and ErCiccione[m], can we please hear your concerns
**\<selsta\>** Integrating them is a bad idea IMO.
**\<ErCiccione\>** The project can be interesting, but gives me the feeling that it need way more than 3 months before we see some concrete development
**\<selsta\>** They are not a Monero project and wouldn’t be here without funding
**\<rottensox\>** ^
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** We also have to ask ourselves how many people are actually going to utilize the integration
**\<rottensox\>** ^
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed, it's a niche solution to be honest
**\<selsta\>** 19:09 <sgp\_> selsta: against recurring, but you would be ok with this one? I'm trying to understand your viewpoint <-- In general I’m against it as it is not related to Monero but I would be ok with one time funding.
**\<rehrar\>** selsta, perhaps. I'm not for them being integrated necessarily. I'm against them getting money unless they are one of us, was my point.
**\<sgp\_\>** but presumably donors would know that? should that be clearer?
**\<sgp\_\>** my concerns with it being niche are related to the donors knowing that, not necessarily a hold on moving the CCS if that makes sense
**\<selsta\>** Where is the limit? Someone creating an operating system that at one point will run Monero, would that be something for the CCS?
**\<ErCiccione\>** I think i'm leaning more to selsta's point of view. A continuous funding of a project without clear benefits doesn;t sound like a good idea, especially since we will see the real benefits in a very long time, not at the end of the 3 months
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** I am also a bit worried it might exhaust donors
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: I don't want to get too into the weeds, but there is an associated marketing opportunity and clear prioritization for a tool built for Monero I suppose. These would need to be addressed case-by-case
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** We've already had periods were projects took quite some time to get funded
**\<rehrar\>** dEBRUYNE: this is my biggest concern.
**\<rehrar\>** We have some big ones coming up too. suraeNoether needs to put his in.
**\<ErCiccione\>** dEBRUYNE: That's a very legit concern. I know the pain of seeing your proposal not funded for months
**\<sgp\_\>** (it's still not fully funded)
**\<rehrar\>** Also, let's be real, funding three conferences a year, plus several quarterlies is, I think, the limit of the system.
**\<rehrar\>** Along with a smattering of small one-offs.
**\<needmonero90\>** Without a pamp at least
**\<ArticMine\>** ^ very valid
**\<needmonero90\>** Even then we risk over extending for a future bear tho
**\<rehrar\>** For this reason alone, I vote no.
**\<ArticMine\>** A future bear is likely to be weaker than this one
**\<sgp\_\>** as a CCS moderator, it's hard for me to weigh the concern about burdening donors in a way that's fair. it's entirely subjective in terms of what to move
**\<sgp\_\>** I get that this is a nonessential need
**\<rehrar\>** In contentious cases like this we leave to Luigi.
**\<ArticMine\>** I am very much on the fence on this.
**\<rehrar\>** I'll be giving a full report to him on our talks here and on the gitlab
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: can you tell luigi I lean yes move with donor disclaimers (they know it's a fun, ambitious, "extra" project), and that you "vote no"
**\<rehrar\>** Can do.
**\<sgp\_\>** any other discussions that are new info or new arguments before we wrap up this topic?
**\<needmonero90\>** None here
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, thanks for your patience as this one took a bit of time to discuss over the past several weeks
**\<sgp\_\>** A Monero-centric Merchant Marketplace https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/117
**\<needmonero90\>** Is endogenic around?
**\<sgp\_\>** any comments on this one? up for a week now
**\<needmonero90\>** I think endogenic might have a similar project, would be curious to know if he's seen that
**\<rottensox\>** https://www.pdf-archive.com/2020/01/29/moneroroadmapkoe012920/moneroroadmapkoe012920.pdf
**\<rottensox\>** item number 7; seems fairly similar to what rbrunner had in mind. koe weighs in on this there.
**\<needmonero90\>** Wait wrong person
**\<needmonero90\>** Wasn't endo, lemme contact them
**\<sgp\_\>** doesn't seem like there's much discussion here yet, so we should review on gitlab and encourage them to do another round of reddit to increase exposure to the idea
**\<sgp\_\>** Part Time Research Atoc (pending update) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/120
**\<sgp\_\>** this one is stalled, no discussion needed
**\<sgp\_\>** xiphon part-time coding https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge_requests/122
**\<sgp\_\>** does anyone oppose this one? contributor with a track record looking to increase their involvement 50%
**\<sarang\>** I believe that atoc is presently interested in the XMR-BTC swap proposal from h4sh3d
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: I think we can discuss that one when it's updated so we have more to discuss
**\<sgp\_\>** for the record: who supports xiphon's proposal?
**\<selsta\>** I do
**\<sgp\_\>** you all are quiet today! many of you commented on gitlab expressing support
**\<selsta\>** 19:23 <sgp\_> does anyone oppose this one? contributor with a track record looking to increase their involvement 50% <-- AFAIK his previous CCS was already 20h/week
**\<selsta\>** unless I misremember
**\<sgp\_\>** this one is 30 hrs
**\<sgp\_\>** 20 -> 30
**\<selsta\>** ah
**\<sgp\_\>** :)
**\<selsta\>** didn’t see that :P
**\<ArticMine\>** Developer proposals from existing contributors are a safe bet in my books. So yes
**\<sgp\_\>** I personally looked to make sure that there are plenty of plans to-do to fill the time, and it seems to be the case 100%
**\<needmonero90\>** Xiphon does valuable work, though I'm also curious how far we can stretch donated time. In the past I've tried to come to grips with the difference between people who are coordinators (availability expectations) and regular controvutors
**\<needmonero90\>** Contributors\*
**\<needmonero90\>** Right now I'm in favor of the proposal, though it's inconsistent with my previously expressed stance that we should only be paying coordinators
**\<selsta\>** coordinators?
**\<needmonero90\>** Yeah, like the mrl
**\<needmonero90\>** They act as human buffers
**\<endogenic\>** mrl is contributing tho
**\<needmonero90\>** For the people who contribute their time and effort for free
**\<selsta\>** we have never done that?
**\<selsta\>** unless I’m missing some discussion
**\<needmonero90\>** I'm speaking about our funding of the researchers, when other people like isthmus don't get CCSed
**\<needmonero90\>** Basically, the researchers have an availability expectation
**\<rehrar\>** He hasn't asked. :P
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: are you suggesting a form of leadership role (likely in addition to contributions)?
**\<needmonero90\>** Exactly
**\<needmonero90\>** I've been referring to them as coordinators
**\<selsta\>** sounds unnecessary for the GUI
**\<needmonero90\>** Them = that role
**\<sgp\_\>** ah, got it
**\<needmonero90\>** And coordinators are really the place where funding makes sense
**\<sgp\_\>** I think in this case the gui workgroup hasn't really formed this way, but maybe they will in the future
**\<sgp\_\>** I mean, they kinda have in practice
**\<needmonero90\>** I'm on the fence about funding regular contributors with no availability/coordination expectation
**\<selsta\>** I disagree with that.
**\<sgp\_\>** I think that's a strong stance
**\<ErCiccione\>** I disagree too
**\<ErCiccione\>** and that's not how the ccs work right now fwiw
**\<rehrar\>** needmonero90: I wouldn't say mooo has an availability/coordination expectation.
**\<sgp\_\>** but I acknowledge the benefit of prioritizing leadership roles
**\<rehrar\>** He does sometimes, but not all the time. He just codes for the most part.
**\<needmonero90\>** I've been trying to figure out an internally consistent structure for the CCS in my own head
**\<needmonero90\>** I realize it's not how it works atm
**\<ErCiccione\>** ah ok :)
**\<rehrar\>** I say yay on xiphon.
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: I think it's an interesting check, but as you acknowledged, there will need to be exceptions as we figure this out :)
**\<selsta\>** We don’t need paid GUI contributors that have expected availability.
**\<selsta\>** We need contributors that code :)
**\<needmonero90\>** One that doesn't open itself up to random people putting pressure on getting their proposal merged so they get a seal of approval
**\<sgp\_\>** I think we're done on xiphon discussion
**\<sgp\_\>** and the CCS stuff
**\<ErCiccione\>** We need contributors that code -> we need contributors.
**\<sgp\_\>** we got through a lot this week, good job everyone
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<rehrar\>** We need contributors -> We need
**\<needmonero90\>** We.
**\<ErCiccione\>** lol
**\<sgp\_\>** not we, just I need
**\<needmonero90\>** I need money
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** vtnerd made a PR for the last major hurdle for dandelion++ support! ++
**\<ErCiccione\>** 90
**\<rehrar\>** I saw that.
**\<rehrar\>** That's kind of super exciting.
**\<sgp\_\>** better network privacy even without tor/i2p
**\<sgp\_\>** cool stuff
**\<rehrar\>** Exciting enough to do a point release with it?
**\<rehrar\>** Once merged, I mean.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: will probably take time to merge, so who knows! :)
**\<sgp\_\>** that's the biggest thing I saw but I'm sure there was more I missed
**\<sarang\>** There are network benefits even without full adoption, FWIW
**\<rehrar\>** At least a day, for sure.
**\<rehrar\>** sarang, can MRL look over the implementation and give their thoughts?
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah, partial is hugely beneficial here
**\<sgp\_\>** though we should expect large adoption at the next hardfork
**\<sarang\>** I added it to the top of my list as soon as I saw it late yesterday
**\<ErCiccione\>** we definitely need to write a blog post after the PR is merged
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sarang\>** I expect it will be discussed at the next MRL meeting
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione[m]: absolutely
**\<sgp\_\>** marketing 101
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: you're up now :)
**\<rehrar\>** This is actually kinda huge.
**\<ErCiccione\>** cool
**\<ErCiccione\>** nothing too big. I'm waiting for 2 PR to be merged in the getmonero repo before starting to use weblate for the website (i will speak about it more in the report of the website workgroup)
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** hi
**\<ErCiccione\>** and the strings for the GUI got updated
**\<ErCiccione\>** so if you speak another language, get in there and translate all the things
**\<ErCiccione\>** translate.getmonero.org
**\<rehrar\>** getmonono.org
**\<ErCiccione\>** there should be about 40 new strings
**\<rehrar\>** Sneaky Computer Bucks
**\<ErCiccione\>** and ike 30 removed, but i'm going by memory, could totally be the other way round
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's basically it. Waiting for a PR to be merged in the core repo, so translators can work on the CLI as well
**\<needmonero90\>** Is CLI currently untranslated?
**\<ErCiccione\>** Not sure of what you mean. CLI is translatable on weblate, but not in this very moment, because the PR with the refresh and the translated strings need to be merged first, or there would be conflicts
**\<needmonero90\>** Oh I understand
**\<ErCiccione\>** this is the PR: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/6312
**\<ErCiccione\>** there is also a brief summary of the work of the translators that is being committed
**\<needmonero90\>** Spanish is only 9% done? Rottensox slackin
**\<ErCiccione\>** so basically after that is merged the new strings will be picked up and people can start to translate the CLI again
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's the normal workflow
**\<rottensox\>** needmonero90: sorry... translation isn't my expertise. actually, i have no specialization.
**\<ErCiccione\>** yeah, cli doesn't see much action, but i'm kinda ok with it, i prefer most of the effort to be on the GUI and if there are energies left, CLI
**\<ErCiccione\>** rottensox: you don't need any specialization. I literally just learned english properly when i started to translate Monero stuff. But that's another story
**\<kinghat\>** so how does D++ work with Tor or I2P?
**\<sgp\_\>** kinghat: let's table that question for now
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else ErCiccione?
**\<ErCiccione\>** nope
**\<sgp\_\>** I have two related things I'll mention here
**\<sgp\_\>** Mastering Monero was translated to Chinese: zh.masteringmonero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** It was also translated to Russian and needs reviewers: https://github.com/monerobook/monerobook/pull/81
**\<sgp\_\>** the second one was part of the CCS request that is outstanding
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's actually super cool. Great job to all involved
**\<sgp\_\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** Binaries for the point release are still not out yet. https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/releases/tag/v0.15.0.3
**\<sgp\_\>** no idea what the status is there honestly
**\<needmonero90\>** Did you ping the telegram channel on the review sgp?
**\<sgp\_\>** but I haven't been paying close attention
**\<needmonero90\>** I can drop the link there if you haven't
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: not yet but I need to
**\<sgp\_\>** oh, please do :)
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Outreach workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** thunderosa: please give your update
**\<thunderosa\>** Sure, so I have Almutasim's update first that I'll copy and paste
**\<thunderosa\>** In the second half of last year, Monero Outreach worked on story generation and publishing in several areas. The following were either edited or written by Monero Outreach during this period:
**\<thunderosa\>** Response to Coinbase. On November 8, 2019, Coinbase blogged an article covering its views on Proof of Work (PoW), and the article made a number of incorrect points and reached an arguably inappropriate conclusion regarding Monero. Monero Outreach's fast-turnaround November 13 response corrected the errors and argued in favor of the ASIC-resistance path taken by Monero’s developers. Corrections included 1)
**\<thunderosa\>** pointing out the article’s description of Monero’s efforts to prevent the use of ASICs as outdated and 2) countering adverse technical and philosophical arguments made regarding the benefits of ASICs.
**\<thunderosa\>** Getting Started with Helping Monero. Monero Outreach created a document describing the many ways individuals can engage with the Monero community and support Monero. Resources for learning more about Monero and its technology were presented. The document included advice for software developers, with links to repositories, guides, and research results. It summarize Monero workgroups and social media outlets.
**\<thunderosa\>** And advice was given on other ways of individual contribution, such as through mining, running a Monero node, and donating.
**\<thunderosa\>** Monero in China and The West. Monero Outreach worked with Chinese Monero community member FutureFan to publish an article comparing the Monero communities of China and the West. FutureFan had previously worked with Monero Outreach by translating articles into Chinese. This new article talked about the relative sizes of the Monero communities and the difference in interest, with, for example, the West more
**\<thunderosa\>** interested in philosophy and China more interested in mining. It presended a path forward to improve cooperation between the two communities and increase the use of Monero in China. This article, released just after the new year, was followed up with a Monero Talk interview that will be published as a video soon.
**\<rottensox\>** damn.
**\<sgp\_\>** they told me before there would be a wall of text, and I recommended getting it all out quickly :)
**\<thunderosa\>** Well,..so the real wall is coming
**\<thunderosa\>** and I'm sorry,..but it's a big update.
**\<sarang\>** pastebin?
**\<thunderosa\>** But our main focus this time around was more on how we publish versus what we publish. Over the past year we've realized that much of the traffic we orchestrate for Monero never touches our servers and in fact the only things we actually need www for is SEO and thumbnail scraping for social media. We saw an opportunity to practice what we preach and decentralize our publishing.
**\<thunderosa\>** With that in mind, we also had a basket of concrete design goals. A big focus was to setup Primo/RPC-Pay/Support Mining in an effort to help subsidize our hard costs. We also thought we were well-suited to be an RPC-Pay guinea pig publisher. It was also important that the Community Calendar and Merchant Directory projects would be furthered. Lastly, we wanted to prepare to release our publishing platform,
**\<thunderosa\>** Spoke, as FOSS and some modernizing and organizing was needed.
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: to some extent it's good to have it actually in the logs rather than an external site that will go away
**\<thunderosa\>** holy cats!
**\<thunderosa\>** sorry about that
**\<thunderosa\>** Anyway, there's alot going on,...TLDR: We're serverless and going to finally finish the Community Calendar on it
**\<ErCiccione\>** ay
**\<sgp\_\>** haha just as I made a temporary solution
**\<ErCiccione\>** (sorry, misclicked)
**\<thunderosa\>** Well, I have been very late in delivering it, and for that I'm sorry.
**\<thunderosa\>** But this is the right way to build it.
**\<ErCiccione\>** the non-google calendar is very welcome :P
**\<thunderosa\>** yeah, we can take Google in if we want,..but I'd really rather avoid using G at all for our projects.
**\<thunderosa\>** like Google Calendar API in
**\<thunderosa\>** as a source
**\<ErCiccione\>** no please don't. My point is to not use google
**\<thunderosa\>** Yeah, I'd like to start with just humans and see how good we can make that before automating too much.
**\<kinghat\>** the outreach post on RPC-Pay was awesome 🙏
**\<ErCiccione\>** ^ agree. Would be cool to make a user guide for getmonero out of it
**\<thunderosa\>** Thank you, Alumtasim did a really amazing job making that happen and leading our workgroup into some new ideas through it.
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for the update thunderosa
**\<sgp\_\>** I echo statements that rpc-pay was great
**\<sgp\_\>** nice, simple name too
**\<sgp\_\>** any other outreach comments?
**\<kinghat\>** put the new cal link in the topic?
**\<thunderosa\>** Nope that's the load. We'll be posting updates mid next week.
**\<sgp\_\>** great, thanks for the updates here
**\<sgp\_\>** skipping hardware since msvb seems away, can come back if needed
**\<sgp\_\>** f. Konferenco workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** Expect an announcement this Monday. But as a sneak peek, the Konferenco is June 13-14 in Berlin.
**\<sgp\_\>** but yeah, be ready Monday
**\<sgp\_\>** g. Monero Research Lab
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<sarang\>** Plenty of topics under discussion recently
**\<sarang\>** One of note is CLSAG
**\<sarang\>** We'd planned for an earlier audit, but got great review comments from a conference submission
**\<sarang\>** If there is still good support for deployment, I recommend an audit still
**\<sarang\>** However, I also recommend not having someone directly involved with the work coordinate the audit
**\<sarang\>** to mitigate conflicts of interest
**\<sarang\>** sgp\_ suggested an audit workgroup
**\<sarang\>** General thoughts on this initial idea?
**\<sgp\_\>** I've reached out to a few names to judge interest
**\<sgp\_\>** but the intent is to use the workgroup to help coordinate the clsag audits
**\<sgp\_\>** maybe I can answer questions about that after sarang, continue
**\<sarang\>** The timing of the audit depends on (a) security model updates to the preprint; (b) availability of reviewers; (c) timeline of selection/fundraising
**\<selsta\>** Is conflict of interest a realistic threat? Can you explain?
**\<sarang\>** I think it's always a good idea to keep in mind
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: there are also a few related goals, like drafting writeups of the results, etc
**\<sarang\>** I think it sets a good standard of impartiality going forward
**\<ArticMine\>** I agree
**\<sarang\>** As a reminder, the benefits of CLSAG are ~25% reduction in typical tx size, and ~15-20% verification savings
**\<sarang\>** The only quote we received last time for a math+code audit was about 15000 USD
**\<sarang\>** this was from Teserakt
**\<ArticMine\>** via OSTIF?
**\<sarang\>** Anyway, that's the big research item of timely community interest that I wished to share
**\<sarang\>** ArticMine: yes
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks sarang
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** may I jump in?
**\<sarang\>** That's another conflict of interest, since I've participated in an OSTIF advisory committee :)
**\<sgp\_\>** it was a busy MRL week, so follow their github if interested: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues
**\<sgp\_\>** UkoeHB_: sure briefly :)
**\<sarang\>** Yes, many issues that we'd been looking at (and new ones) are now listed there as issues
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** Here is the current roadmap containing others’ ideas and my ideas, most of which need more discussion so please feel free to leave thoughts https://www.pdf-archive.com/2020/02/01/moneroroadmapkoe020120/moneroroadmapkoe020120.pdf
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** OpenBazaar integration was investigated by rbrunner in 2019 but met some technological roadblocks. I have been engineering solutions to those problems, which should hopefully be fleshed out over the next weeks. The solutions would be beneficial to any Monero based marketplace that wants to operate with minimal trust requirements.
**\<sarang\>** ^ koe's personal roadmap
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** Sarang has helped me design a monero-style coinjoin protocol, named TxTangle, which is mostly done.
**\<UkoeHB\_\>** yes
**\<sarang\>** (don't view it as endorsement by anyone else)
**\<sgp\_\>** nice
**\<sarang\>** This may be a bit off-topic for this group, but at some point it should be decided when the next network upgrade should occur, given CLSAG and other changes of possible interest
**\<sarang\>** CLSAG is a consensus change
**\<sarang\>** D++ is not
**\<sarang\>** but simultaneous release would help adoption
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: good point, we will need to talk about that later though
**\<sarang\>** Yeah, I know it's running late :/
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks UkoeHB_
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: would you like to give a website update?
**\<ErCiccione\>** yes
**\<sgp\_\>** go ahead
**\<ErCiccione\>** i guess we are running late so i'll be superquick
**\<ErCiccione\>** 3 things:
**\<ErCiccione\>** 1. Logs of meetings are not being submitted on getmonero. We miss quite a lot of logs of meeting happened in the last months. If somebody want to help submitting some, that would be very appreciated
**\<ErCiccione\>** 2. We really really need people to review pull request on monero-site. Some of my PR are still waiting for a review after more than one month. Some of them are also trivial
**\<ErCiccione\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge\_requests
**\<ErCiccione\>** ^ please take a look and review if you can
**\<ErCiccione\>** 3. Two of these PR need to be merged asap because without them i cannot put getmonero on weblate. The PR are:
**\<ErCiccione\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge\_requests/1212
**\<ErCiccione\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/merge\_requests/1210
**\<ErCiccione\>** That's it. Please review stuff or the development of the website will be slowed down
**\<sgp\_\>** thank you
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<sgp\_\>** Just one thing: xenugrande recommended “doing some sort of one day rally as part of the festivities for the yearly Monero anniversary. I received enthusiasm for it to possibly act as a fundraiser for the Monero research team, as well as doing some sort of "black friday" type of event where we would reach out directly to merchants/vendors to coordinate deals for people using Monero.”
**\<sgp\_\>** Last year we did the online event. We still need to plan that event, so we can make that a community meeting topic or a separate meeting.
**\<kinghat\>** vcool UkoeHB\_!
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero's anniversary falls on a Saturday this year, so it's easy to plan
**\<sgp\_\>** Look for a Moneroversary issue in the next week on the meta repo to collect ideas
**\<sgp\_\>** Any final essential thoughts?
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 15 February at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is next week on 8 February at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** New calendar(mahy now be very temporary haha) (please configure reminders if they don’t copy over!): https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=itmaraubkfoe4aq2oquoaogsuk%40group.calendar.google.com
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-02-15
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / rehrar
---
# Logs
**\<rehrar\>** 0. Introduction
**\<rehrar\>** Hello and welcome to the Community Workgroup Gameshow (CWG)! I'm your host, Diego Salazar, and we've got a great show planned for you all tonight.
**\<rehrar\>** Let's meet our contestants.
**\<rehrar\>** 1. Greetings
**\<intj440\>** Hi
**\<jwinterm\>** buen sabado todos
**\<selsta\>** hi
**\<i\_a\>** ahoy
**\<rottensox\>** salutations.
**\<nioc\>** i'm napping
**\<rottensox\>** where's needmonero90.
**\<rehrar\>** Got us a lively group, don't we? Let's see how they handle the challenges to come.
**\<rehrar\>** 2. Community highlights
\* needmonero90 sighs
**\<ajs\>** i'll take geography for 500 rehrar
**\<rehrar\>** All points go to Diego who writes the Revuo Monero which you can see at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<rehrar\>** We also released the July 1, 2019 - December 31, 2019 periodical
**\<rehrar\>** Does anyone have anything in particular they want to highlight about this past couple of weeks?
**\<needmonero90\>** price go up
**\<jwinterm\>** cake wallet has been doing a nice job of getting people with breasts to post images of themselves wearing cake wallet t-shirts on tweeter
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<jwinterm\>** other than that I got nothing
**\<rehrar\>** ...when in the land of the nerds
**\<endogenic\>** i've been working on something very exciting
**\<endogenic\>** i'm only going to tell rehrar about it
**\<rehrar\>** endogenic: want to share?
**\<rottensox\>** boo!
**\<endogenic\>** because i'm only friends with him
**\<rottensox\>** double boo!
**\<dandums\>** 43770
**\<rehrar\>** ooooh, bonus points for endogenic
**\<endogenic\>** yessss
**\<rehrar\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<endogenic\>** haha i'll share real soon rottensox
**\<rehrar\>** We got a few things in funding. Fund Xiphon plz
**\<rehrar\>** Xiphon is the bees knees and does great work. selsta will now give a short speech/poem about Xiphon's contributions.
**\<endogenic\>** been hanging with some crytocurrency groups in SF as well. we may see some movement
**\<selsta\>** he is doing important GUI work :P
**\<rehrar\>** clap clap
**\<selsta\>** like improving stability, speed, etc.
**\<rehrar\>** truly a man with a mastery of words. Thank you selsta.
**\<selsta\>** sorry I’m currently eating :P
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<rehrar\>** vtnerd? sarang? suraeNoether? anybody here with a report on CCS activities?
**\<sarang\>** More math, more data, more fun
**\<sarang\>** Using chain data to get better comparisons of next-gen tx protocols, etc.
**\<rehrar\>** Sarang Noether, ladies and gentlemen
**\<endogenic\>** i like sarang
**\<sarang\>** Aw shucks
**\<sarang\>** A few other assorted code updates, and so on
**\<rehrar\>** thank you. Any other CCS updates?
**\<endogenic\>** in other news mymonero continues not to ask the community for money
**\<endogenic\>** 😂
**\<rehrar\>** 4. Workgroup reports
**\<rehrar\>** 4a. Daemon/CLI scrubs
**\<rehrar\>** anyone here from them that can say what you've been up to? merged things? pr'd things?
**\<rehrar\>** 4b. Localization
**\<rehrar\>** ErCiccione[m]? you around?
**\<rehrar\>** lol. Zero points for everyone.
**\<rehrar\>** I do know they now have Weblate working with the website, so translate.getmonero.org for that stuffs
**\<rehrar\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<rehrar\>** selsta: what's the word?
**\<selsta\>** see https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pulls?utf8=✓&q=is%3Apr for recent activity
**\<rehrar\>** what an informative meeting this is so far
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<endogenic\>** dont mean to jump in but have to run. check out my upcoming monerotalk interview - i made some technical announcements
**\<rehrar\>** aight cya
**\<selsta\>** when is it coming out
**\<endogenic\>** like stuff we've been workin on a long time
**\<selsta\>** the interview
**\<endogenic\>** ah i dunno. it was about a week aho
**\<endogenic\>** ago
**\<selsta\>** ok so soon :P
**\<endogenic\>** y'all remember when adding wallets to an app took 6 mos?
**\<endogenic\>** like jaxx? haha
**\<endogenic\>** well that's 1 day now
**\<endogenic\>** tbh i actually already open sourced some stuff quietly
**\<endogenic\>** but this is not the really exciting upcomign thing
**\<endogenic\>** time to go tell diego in private
**\<endogenic\>** haha
**\<selsta\>** are you going to announce it in the interview?
**\<selsta\>** or still secret :P
**\<rehrar\>** 4d. Outreach workgroup
**\<rehrar\>** I don't think any of them piped up either
**\<needmonero90\>** :(
**\<rehrar\>** Thunderosa, xmrhaelan?
**\<rehrar\>** e. Monero Research Lab
**\<endogenic\>** selsta heya it's not announced in the interview no
**\<rehrar\>** sarang kinda already did it.
**\<sarang\>** :)
**\<rehrar\>** I jumped the gun. We blazing through this meeting.
**\<rehrar\>** let's get us all home
**\<rehrar\>** f. Website workgroup
**\<rehrar\>** ErCiccione[m]: isn't here so we can skip this one too
**\<rehrar\>** woot. The best kinds of meetings.
**\<needmonero90\>** efficient meeting
**\<shillo\>** I have nothing useful to add besides mentioning that rehrar is doing a great job running this meeting even though people are slow to respond. If he waits long enough I'm sure everything will be covered in due time
**\<rehrar\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<rehrar\>** 5a. Moneroversary.
**\<rehrar\>** We doing anything? Party? Who's bringing the beer?
**\<endogenic\>** i'ma chat w sgp about a ton of ideas i have for that
**\<rehrar\>** perfect. in fact, let's take all discussion offline for efficiency sake
**\<rehrar\>** next meeting will be held over PMs
**\<endogenic\>** hahaha
**\<endogenic\>** it's a private meeting
**\<rehrar\>** Any of you bozos have any ideas for open ideas time?
**\<rehrar\>** I have something if nobody else does.
**\<endogenic\>** you go first
**\<rehrar\>** There was some discussion and a twitter thread about some individuals wishing Defcon villages would go back to their roots of being more hands-on rather than talk focused.
**\<rehrar\>** Now Defcon is still a ways away, but if they have us back again, I'd like to see our village go in that direction.
**\<rehrar\>** Less talks. WAAAAY less talks. In fact, most of the talks can be the same talk given multiple times a day for people that can't make other times. "What is Monero?" given by different people or whatever.
**\<rehrar\>** More workshops. How to use the wallet. How to secure your seed. How to use a hardware wallet.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Can we allocate some time to discuss the addition of 'Reasonably' on the website?
**\<rehrar\>** dEBRUYNE: sure
**\<rottensox\>** how to lose your private key in a boating accident.
**\<rehrar\>** That's basically it from me. More discussions will develop in #monero-defcon when it's time, I think.
**\<rehrar\>** dEBRUYNE: take it away
**\<rehrar\>** lol, ok shall I start the discussion then?
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Sorry, didn't see the ping
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Anyway, I think, similar to the guy that posted on reddit, that we shouldn't add an adjective on the website, regardless of which it is
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Simply 'private' is sufficient. In my opinion, it does not provide a privacy guarantee
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Furthermore, we can add a disclaimer link that provides elaboration
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** The optics of 'reasonably' are quite bad in my opinion and it leaves a lot of new people guessing what it might entail
**\<intj440\>** +1
**\<nioc\>** dEBRUYNE: agree
**\<rehrar\>** We can also remove the "A" and just end up with "Private Digital Currency"
**\<rehrar\>** which, surprise is what was there to begin with :D
**\<jwinterm\>** a somewhat private with several important caveats that users should be aware of digital currency
**\<jwinterm\>** has a nice ring to it
**\<rehrar\>** any other opinions? differing or otherwise?
**\<rottensox\>** jwinterm: tl;dr.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** What would be the point of removing 'A' rehrar?
**\<rottensox\>** private digital currency is simple and effective. don't look for the 5th leg in the cat.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Or is my sarcasm detector broken here :p
**\<rehrar\>** not sarcasm, what's the point of keeping it?
**\<jwinterm\>** 'A' is extraneous
**\<shillo\>** I'd remove the "A"
**\<rehrar\>** it's implied, yes
**\<rehrar\>** unless.....
**\<rehrar\>** if we want an article
**\<jwinterm\>** I agree an article is unnecessary
**\<rehrar\>** THE private digital currency
**\<jwinterm\>** unless you use 'The'
**\<rehrar\>** ^
**\<jwinterm\>** rehrar and I are actually the same person
**\<rottensox\>** impossible.
**\<rehrar\>** if jwinterm does squats, then it's literally true
**\<jwinterm\>** nah I'm fat and lazy
**\<rehrar\>** alright, so the present group is pretty much in agreement to remove "reasonably"
**\<rehrar\>** any other points of discussion or ideas?
**\<rehrar\>** if not, next meeting 29th. Same time.j
**\<SerHack\>** Yes, rehrar! I've submitted my third CCS for Monero integrations
**\<SerHack\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/merge\_requests/125
**\<sarang\>** Phrasings like "private" and "untraceable" are not useful without a lot of context
**\<rehrar\>** ah, cool, go comment on that then everyone
**\<rehrar\>** remove private leaves "Digital Currency"
**\<SerHack\>** There you may find all the information about my CCS. If you have any question, or any additional feature request, please leave a comment!
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** sarang: Hence my suggestion to add a direct link to a disclaimer page
**\<rehrar\>** Like some people say, probably better for it to be a link that takes to qualifications
**\<rehrar\>** ye
**\<sarang\>** It's not just the tagline... the homepage also says matter-of-fact phrasings like "Monero is private" and "Monero is untraceable"
**\<sarang\>** There's nuance and use cases etc. that affect those things
**\<rehrar\>** every word should be a link to a disclaimer
**\<rehrar\>** although I think we should move untraceable
**\<shillo\>** just hire a lawyer to decide how it should be phrased
**\<rehrar\>** I honestly think at some point we need to do a deep rethink of Monero's branding
**\<rehrar\>** I'm sure there's a good, snappy way to convey the message of Monero without a. overhyping us, b. underselling what makes us great
**\<rehrar\>** but it needs work, and a couple of tweaks isn't going to do it
**\<nioc\>** shillo: lol
**\<wampum\>** womanero
**\<rehrar\>** alright, meeting adjourned

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-02-29
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<needmonero90\>** Sarang suraeNoether
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<monerobux\>** asymptotically: meeting time! :o
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/442
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<rottensox\>** hi fam!
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<needmonero90\>** Isthmus M5M400
**\<suraeNoether\>** Howdy
**\<needmonero90\>** Hello!
**\<M5M400\>** oh a ping. thx
**\<rehrar\>** I'm here
**\<sgp\_\>** reminder that until the Monero Outreach calendar is finished, you can add this one (Google, eww): https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=itmaraubkfoe4aq2oquoaogsuk%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** it has default reminders
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks everyone for being here!
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** We should play a game later today. Conversation after the meeting.
**\<sgp\_\>** I’m soft announcing our new home! https://communityworkgroup.org. We can use this page to more easily organize Monero Community Workgroup resources going forward. If we have time during open ideas, I’d love to hear your ideas! Putting this aside otherwise for now.
**\<sgp\_\>** I published most of the 36c3 videos to YouTube a few hours/seconds ago! Surprise! I’ll spend time after the meeting organizing them and uploading a few stragglers: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBn07zTBg7fGHRW5Kn_Z3FJL
**\<monerobux\>** [ Chaos Communication Congress 2019 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** You can share individual videos, but I don’t recommend sharing the playlist yet. It’s too ugly and disorganized currently.
**\<Mochi101\>** I seen they were coming out sgp\_ - very nice!
**\<sgp\_\>** 244 GB up and down yesterday, my ISP loves me :)
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<Mochi101\>** I quite my job?
**\<Mochi101\>** quit
**\<Mochi101\>** Oh, Monero related... sorry.
**\<M5M400\>** congrats anyway
**\<cankerwort\>** Hello community
**\<sgp\_\>** haha I probably should specify, but congrats!
**\<asymptotically\>** i'm developing a new open source pool software, it doesn't really have any shiny cool features but maybe it will be nice for people to have a new choice :D
**\<Mochi101\>** Seriously asymptotically ?
**\<Mochi101\>** Awesome!
**\<M5M400\>** asymptotically: nice. can you also create a miner that is NOT xmrig or stak?
**\<cankerwort\>** With decentralising features like what jtgrassie made?
**\<Mochi101\>** M5M400, RagerX ?
**\<cankerwort\>** Whatever that was called
**\<asymptotically\>** stratum-ss? i was looking into that but it doesn't support it yet
**\<needmonero90\>** what about the GUI?
**\<needmonero90\>** GUI has a miner.
**\<asymptotically\>** i thought it just used the daemon one
**\<cankerwort\>** Apparently most of the pool operators haven't got a clue how to implement it, so if it was plug and play it would do a lot of good
**\<needmonero90\>** isnt that a miner that isnt rig or stak?
**\<cankerwort\>** Especially with all that FUD about 2 pools dominating a little while back
**\<M5M400\>** needmonero90: probably, but an independent one would be nice
**\<cankerwort\>** I don't think the gui miner supports pools at all, iirc
**\<rottensox\>** sgp\_: fifth paragraph here, think has as minor typo... https://www.communityworkgroup.org/about '... This channel hosts the Monero Konferenco, Critical Decentralization Cluster as the Chaos Communication Congress' shouldn't it be at, not as? 'at the Chaos Communication Congress.'
**\<sgp\_\>** rottensox: yes
**\<sgp\_\>** I'll also change all "Decentralization" -> "Decentralisation"
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for brining that up asymptotically
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other updates?
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero-related :)
**\<cankerwort\>** Isn't that a US/UK spelling thing?
**\<rottensox\>** it is. :-D
**\<sgp\_\>** cankerwort yes but the organizers use the s
**\<rehrar\>** No, we need the z
**\<cankerwort\>** Fair enough
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: lol
**\<sgp\_\>** internal war here
**\<cankerwort\>** Or we can fight over it
**\<sgp\_\>** We have a lot of CCS updates to get through, so for the interest of time, there's a small rule change.
**\<sgp\_\>** Please comment if you have a workgroup report by messaging “Workgroup Update: [workgroup name]” any time before part 4 of the meeting, or else your workgroup section may be skipped.
**\<Mochi101\>** You two can start a reddit thread and fight over it there
**\<cankerwort\>** Yes everything seems to be fully funded
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** All proposals in funding required are fully-funded!
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<Mochi101\>** wow
\* sgp\_ clears throat
**\<sgp\_\>** A Monero-centric Merchant Marketplace (70 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/117
**\<sgp\_\>** we discussed this one a while back, but I don't think we've had a recent conversation
**\<nioc\>** please move SerHack 's request to funding required
**\<sgp\_\>** .....anyone have anything to say about this marketplace proposal?
**\<asymptotically\>** i think its a good idea, but i think a better community solution would be a self-hosted open source thingy you can just set up with one command and you get your own store
**\<Mochi101\>** oh wow
**\<cankerwort\>** So it's like Monero flavoured Shopify?
**\<Mochi101\>** That'd be awesome
**\<rottensox\>** UkoeHB\_ was crossing roads with this idea when working on multisig for ZtM v2 and the recent rbrunner7 idea of having a XMR-like OpenBazaar alternative.
**\<asymptotically\>** like how you can use monero-integrations with some wordpress things, and you control everything yourself. but it's probably not the easiest thing to get going
**\<endogenic\>** i suggest making the proposal more concrete
**\<Mochi101\>** Monero-Integrations is very easy... The only thing that may be hard for a new person is the view only wallet.
**\<endogenic\>** seems kinda vague
**\<cankerwort\>** Open source and self-hosted would be nice, but people are lazy and would like to pay a third party to do all the work for them (hence shopify)
**\<rehrar\>** all code developed is open source, right?
**\<rehrar\>** meaning anyone would be able to deploy this shopify
**\<rottensox\>** no. lol.
**\<asymptotically\>** Mochi101: but you have to manage wordpress and other tear inducing things
**\<rehrar\>** I mean for this marketplace
**\<cankerwort\>** That's the important question
**\<sgp\_\>** well it's a non-starter if it's not, so maybe we need to clarify that first
**\<sgp\_\>** can someone comment asking that?
**\<cankerwort\>** If the dude publishes the code so people cam do it themselves, but also starts a business managing and doing all the work for those that want that that would be ideal
**\<cankerwort\>** That way continued work could be sustained (maybe)
**\<rottensox\>** lza\_menace lza_menace[m] was that you or that's someone else's proposal?
**\<sgp\_\>** @lalanza808 on gitlab
**\<sgp\_\>** anyway, I think we can move on since there are outstanding questions
**\<sgp\_\>** Mining outreach, Ministo (40 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/124
**\<Mochi101\>** no
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** Yes
**\<sgp\_\>** lza_menace[m]: can you confirm if your marketplace code will all be open-source
**\<rehrar\>** I don't care about this one either way.
**\<Mochi101\>** I don't like that proposal.
**\<asymptotically\>** .seen ministo
**\<monerobux\>** asymptotically: I last saw ministo at 2018-05-15 - 22:42:21 in another channel.
**\<nioc\>** contact data centers and suggest that they mine/
**\<nioc\>** ?
**\<cankerwort\>** No
**\<Mochi101\>** yeah nioc
**\<sgp\_\>** I think the mining one is way too expensive for a start
**\<rottensox\>** against.
**\<asymptotically\>** maybe it would be better if he partnered with a pool or something
**\<cankerwort\>** I don't think this even needs outreach tbh
**\<sgp\_\>** asymptotically: that's a decent idea, pool provides referral fee or something
**\<sgp\_\>** I also think 99% of the responses will be "no"
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** sgp_: yes, the code would all be open sourced. The goal would be to setup a foundation for a web shop that anybody could spin up and run their own. If people wanted to run a legitimate business doing it, they would have the tools to do so
**\<rehrar\>** Let's take a step back and continue on the marketplace discussion since we got answers. We need to make a recommendation to core. It's about time.
**\<cankerwort\>** I like the sound of that a lot
**\<sgp\_\>** sure rehrar
**\<rehrar\>** since this went up a month ago, the price has changed? would that need to be edited lza\_menace[m] ?
**\<rehrar\>** if so, to what?
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** I’m fine to leave it
**\<sgp\_\>** the monero is currently worth about $4,800
**\<rehrar\>** meh, I'm down for it.
**\<sgp\_\>** I think in any case, lza_menace[m] will need to make another round of marketing since it's been a while
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** I normally do $100/hour for consulting gigs, but this will likely take more than 48 hours. I’m okay to eat some of that though
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** Ok, I can do another reddit post
**\<needmonero90\>** Monero people generally dont charge market price for their services
**\<sgp\_\>** $100/hr is very high for a fun side project someone can work on at their own schedule. Same with even $50 frankly
**\<rehrar\>** let's get a bit more feedback from the reddit post, but overall I see this as fine.
**\<sgp\_\>** okay, anything else before I move to the next one rehrar?
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** sgp_: this will likely be way more than 48 hours is what I’m saying. It will end up being much less than my going rate because it is a fun side project.
**\<rehrar\>** no, mov eon
**\<lza\_menace[m]\>** You guys missed the point of me saying that
**\<sgp\_\>** lza_menace[m]: got it, thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** let's finish up the mining outreach one
**\<sgp\_\>** https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/124
**\<sgp\_\>** most people thought it wasn't worth supporting, correct?
**\<rehrar\>** it seems most present are fairly negative towards it
**\<sgp\_\>** unless this person is a sales genius with good existing connections, I can't see how this is valuable
**\<sgp\_\>** and even then, there are other ways to go about it
**\<sgp\_\>** next one
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Integrations part 3, serhack (10 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/125
**\<sgp\_\>** move?
**\<nioc\>** Y
**\<sgp\_\>** anyone against?
**\<rehrar\>** ye
**\<SerHack\>** Hey guys! I have edited the price, asking for 11 xmr instead of 10. Does anyone have problem with that?
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: is that a serious comment?
**\<Mochi101\>** I love Monero-Integrations
**\<suraeNoether\>** No problem with price change
**\<rehrar\>** oh, it wasn't a ye to what you said
**\<rehrar\>** it was an answer to "move?"
**\<ajs\>** no problem, support SerHack 100%
**\<sgp\_\>** ah, got it :)
**\<SerHack\>** I have to pay taxes but this week I'll be focused on Monero Integrations since lessons are suspended here!
**\<sgp\_\>** eww, I thought that was mostly a US problem lol
**\<SerHack\>** Oh, cool! Thanks for supporting me!
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: pass along strong support (as expected)
**\<rehrar\>** will do
**\<sgp\_\>** SerHack: did you update the price on there for 11 yet?
**\<SerHack\>** If anyone has any additional question, don't be shy to ask!
**\<SerHack\>** sgp\_ I think yes
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, next one then
**\<sgp\_\>** Add new file (payment integration), pricode (30 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/126
**\<sgp\_\>** here's another similar proposal
**\<sgp\_\>** the details are quite light imo
**\<SerHack\>** As I reported on Gitlab, this CCS request has been created three minutes after I've created mine. It looked suspicious
**\<rottensox\>** seems like a no? it was initially closed and commented by rehrar. rather sketchy they open it up again, not following format even...
**\<rehrar\>** lol!
**\<rehrar\>** I mean, this payment gateway he is proposing seems to be different than Monero Integrations
**\<rehrar\>** if he says "image (sic) stripe" which is a cross-platform dealio
**\<rehrar\>** I think a "stripe" of Monero would be cool, but given his inability to format the proposal correctly (When instructions are easily available and simple to follow) doesn't give me high confidence in his ability to actually make it.
**\<asymptotically\>** you mean i cant just ctrl+s the stripe webpage and edit it?
**\<needmonero90\>** shouldnt we let the donors decide that??1?!one!?
**\<sgp\_\>** any final comments on this one, or close for not enough info?
**\<needmonero90\>** close.
**\<rehrar\>** I will comment on this proposal and let him know it's improperly formatted and ask him to attend the next community meeting where he might share some of his expertise and/or credentials.
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, next (skipping a bit)
**\<sgp\_\>** Norwegian translation of webplate + footers + nav. Menu, Chris Avis (6 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/129
**\<sgp\_\>** anyone for or against? speak up!
**\<Mochi101\>** for
**\<rehrar\>** sure
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, next
**\<sgp\_\>** 2 more
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Debian Package Repository for 2 years, Patrick Schleizer (60 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/130
**\<sgp\_\>** Whonix founder wants these funds to make a debian package repo
**\<rehrar\>** People have talked about a Debian repository for a long time, and this seems like the guy to do it. Ready, willing, and capable.
**\<rehrar\>** Solidifies good relationship with Whonix peeps too. They like us.
**\<sgp\_\>** Is the amount fair? I have no clue tbh
**\<sgp\_\>** 2000 for a week?
**\<rehrar\>** I too have no idea what goes into packaging.
**\<sgp\_\>** he refers to the bitcoin AppImage boing added; how is that process similar?
**\<sgp\_\>** \*being
**\<sgp\_\>** and did someone pay for this
**\<rehrar\>** I particularly like that it's not hosted on getmonero infra though. :D
**\<rehrar\>** the problem with hosting external packages is that it has to come from an trusted external source. I can't think of more trusted names in privacy than Whonix.
**\<sgp\_\>** I'd like to see some knowledgeable people comment and ask questions before this is moved
**\<rehrar\>** What do you mean did someone pay for this?
**\<sgp\_\>** did someone pay for the bitcoin debian package? or is that not comparable? I don't know
**\<sgp\_\>** anyway, we can keep moving
**\<sgp\_\>** last CCS idea
**\<sgp\_\>** [Monero Aligned] Proposal for 1M5 Integration as Proxy, Brian Taylor (150 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/127
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione added some comments suggesting they felt the proposal needed work
**\<sgp\_\>** this was first pitched to Bisq
**\<sgp\_\>** (who couldn't pay)
**\<sgp\_\>** the main milestone seems to be "Implement 1M5 API to support Monero transactions and document"
**\<nioc\>** he came into -dev recently and explained himself
**\<sgp\_\>** nioc: cool, can you paste the relevant logs in the repo?
**\<selsta\>** I’m against the proposal at the current stage.
**\<nioc\>** sgp\_: I might be able to, dunno
**\<rehrar\>** so...in comes all of the [Monero Aligned] proposals then?
**\<sgp\_\>** it also looks like many things on their website are proposed/in development.
**\<rehrar\>** though this one directly relates to Monero more, it seems.
**\<rehrar\>** what was the consensus in -dev?
**\<nioc\>** there was a conversation but the proposal was not updated
**\<rehrar\>** ok, but what was discussed in this conversation? :P at very least can we have a date of the logs so I Can look myself?
**\<selsta\>** It makes no sense to implement 1M5 at this stage.
**\<rehrar\>** it seems we can table this one for now.
**\<nioc\>** rehrar: will have to look
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: good point that in general this could be putting the cart well before the horse
**\<sgp\_\>** anyway, done with CCS stuff
**\<sgp\_\>** not a single person said they wanted to give a workgroup update, so we can skkip over the entire section 4
**\<selsta\>** I can give short GUI update
**\<sgp\_\>** sure selsta
**\<selsta\>** we will tag v0.15.0.4 today and Snipa has his build environment ready
**\<selsta\>** so new release soon
**\<nioc\>** rehrar: Feb 24 name is objectorange
\* needmonero90 gets food and will be on sporadically for the rest of the meeting
**\<M5M400\>** yaaaay new gui
**\<selsta\>** also we will probably release CLI/GUI v0.15.1.0 in March
**\<needmonero90\>** wait, we have GUI now?
**\<rehrar\>** thank you nioc
**\<selsta\>** with Dandelion if it gets reviewed in time
**\<sgp\_\>** ooooh
**\<rehrar\>** selsta: maybe just push the tag back a bit then to get Dandelion in?
**\<rehrar\>** or is there some big bug fixes or something? what's the urgency before D++?
**\<selsta\>** HackerOne disclosures
**\<rehrar\>** ah, gotcha
**\<selsta\>** will see how to do it best
**\<sgp\_\>** monero gui as unsafe as iota trinity wallet confirmed
\* selsta afk again
**\<nioc\>** rehrar: also some brief comments on the 26th
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang you had something too?
**\<sarang\>** Just a very brief update... worked on some code updates for CLSAG efficiency, hash function stuff, and transaction proofs
**\<sarang\>** Nothing too exciting :)
**\<suraeNoether\>** oh gosh
**\<suraeNoether\>** I wanted to mention
**\<suraeNoether\>** There's a creative inquiry program at a couple of universities where projects like ours can propose a project for undergraduates to work on over a semester. no cost to us, as long as we get faculty members to sponsor the projects and we can meet with the students weekly
**\<suraeNoether\>** Deadline for Fall 2020 is March 25, and I wanted to bring it up but it's certainly not urgent
**\<suraeNoether\>** I'm working on a proposal with a faculty member at Clemson to get a couple of unpaid interns.
**\<suraeNoether\>** re-emphasize: no cost to us
**\<sgp\_\>** suraeNoether: I'm happy to help here however needed
**\<suraeNoether\>** if folks have ideas for simple coding or math projects that can be done by newbies in 12-16 weeks, I'm starting a list
**\<Mochi101\>** #MathIsFun
**\<sgp\_\>** cool
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm going to wrap up, but open ideas time is every time :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 14 March at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is next week on 7 March at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-03-28
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/450
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Hola
**\<kinghat[m]\>** o/
**\<msvb-mob\>** Hello.
**\<sgp\_\>** ping needmonero90 rehrar ErCiccione[m]
\* needmonero90 yawns
\* needmonero90 rolls over
\* needmonero90 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
**\<sgp\_\>** lol, you even get an extra hour of sleep now
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** I’m soft announcing our new home! https://communityworkgroup.org. We can use this page to more easily organize Monero Community Workgroup resources going forward. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders. If we have time during open ideas, I’d love to hear your ideas!
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<needmonero90\>** Still waking up, I'll think of something eventually
**\<sgp\_\>** Community is tired :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<needmonero90\>** Ah yes
**\<needmonero90\>** Publish0x is blacklisted now
**\<needmonero90\>** From the subreddit
**\<sgp\_\>** long overdue
**\<needmonero90\>** Yup, but gotta get announced somewhere
**\<sgp\_\>** check off that compliance requirement
**\<needmonero90\>** Additionally
**\<needmonero90\>** I'd like to thank osrsneedsf2p
**\<needmonero90\>** He helped us modify the regex for nonparticipation links, so that sister subreddits no longer get your comment removed
**\<needmonero90\>** Which is really really nics
**\<sgp\_\>** excellent
**\<needmonero90\>** Nice
**\<needmonero90\>** Okay, that's it from my end. Probably one or two more minor things to announce, if I think of them I'll mention
**\<needmonero90\>** Carry on :)
**\<sgp\_\>** speaking of compliance requirements....
**\<sgp\_\>** Before we get into the usual CCS section, needmoney90 initiated a discussion on the topic of proactively preventing the CCS from being used as a potential vehicle for sanctions funding.
**\<sgp\_\>** I’m soliciting feedback on adding the following attestation required to open a CCS proposal:
**\<sgp\_\>** “I declare that I (and the entity and individuals I represent, if applicable) am/are not on OFAC’s Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons List or otherwise covered by any other OFAC sanctions list, which may include entities and individuals in certain jurisdictions.”
**\<sgp\_\>** https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspxtions
**\<rehrar\>** Sorry here
**\<sgp\_\>** https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx ^^
**\<needmonero90\>** I would like the blurb determined by a lawyer
**\<needmonero90\>** That does not cover money moving to a covered entity
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: want to provide one?
**\<needmonero90\>** Which also is counted as part of the sanctions
**\<needmonero90\>** I've asked Fluffy to talk to the tari people, but thus far he hasn't responded
**\<needmonero90\>** Been a few days
**\<sgp\_\>** you can also rip one from a large company's ToS you find
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** sorry just arrived. Reading backlog
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have general questions on this or concerns?
**\<sgp\_\>** Note: this is a \*completely* preventative measure
**\<needmonero90\>** Nothing on my end, raising the issue once I was aware of it is all I can do atm
**\<sgp\_\>** We may want to have a wider topic on terms of use like Zcash Foundation's: https://grants.zfnd.org/tos
**\<sgp\_\>** but we can do that later, just wanted to make sure people are aware of the conversation
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: want to open a github issue for it in meta?
**\<needmonero90\>** Sure.
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks, it will help with organization
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** All proposals in funding required are fully-funded!
**\<rehrar\>** Disagree.
**\<rehrar\>** Don't ask don't tell.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: there are some concerns that may not be a sufficient policy
**\<rehrar\>** The CCS is not based in the USA.
**\<needmonero90\>** Donors can be.
**\<needmonero90\>** And they should be informed if so, no😆
**\<needmonero90\>** \*?
**\<rehrar\>** They are donating money to the CCS, not the individual.
**\<rehrar\>** Which is not based in the CCS.
**\<sgp\_\>** it's not that simple
**\<rehrar\>** \*USA
**\<needmonero90\>** Ofac covers money transferring through entities to an Ofac covered entity
**\<needmonero90\>** It doesn't stop after one hop, you're expected to know the end recipient
**\<needmonero90\>** Which is bullshit
**\<needmonero90\>** But we're expected to self enforce, at penalty of $55k/violation and 20y in jail max penalty
**\<needmonero90\>** If we do not make a note in a CCS about where the money goes, we could have some serious issues for donors (or CCS maintainers should they be located in the US and facilitating the payment)
**\<selsta\>** Isn’t this something core team has to decide? They are operating the CCS.
**\<rehrar\>** Then what was done (nm90) saying what he found in the comments is the correct way to do.
**\<needmonero90\>** I got attacked for that
**\<rehrar\>** A measure should NOT be added to the CCS rules. Never.
**\<needmonero90\>** Apparently I shouldn't have even mentioned it
**\<needmonero90\>** Just ignore it and it'll go away
**\<needmonero90\>** Googling peoples usernames is unacceptable
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: I think people were upset you mentioned it in a specific proposal
**\<needmonero90\>** I was literally just told by rehrar to mention it in a specific proposal
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** posting their suspected name in public is unaccettable
**\<needmonero90\>** His suggestion is what I just did
**\<needmonero90\>** Er, his 'suspected name' is literally the username he's using
**\<rottensox\>** ^
**\<needmonero90\>** That's not doxxing dude
**\<sgp\_\>** I didn't know rehrar suggested that
**\<rehrar\>** nm90 I'm not thrilled with using comments for it either, but if we HAD to do something, then I'd rather it be that than formalizing the CCS with this red tape.
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** guys are you serious? Posting the suspected personal information on somebody (we are talking about a real profile) is not a good thing at all
**\<rehrar\>** Sgp he's referring to my comment above saying the comments would be the way to do it rather than codifying it.
**\<needmonero90\>** If it's the first Google result for their username I see no problem.
**\<needmonero90\>** That's called due diligence
**\<nioc\>** .w nioc
**\<monerobux\>** [WIKIPEDIA] National Iranian Oil Company | "The National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC; Persian: شرکت ملّی نفت ایران‎, romanized: Sherkat-e Melli-ye Naft-e Īrān) is a government-owned national oil and natural gas producer and distributor under the direction of the Ministry of Petroleum of Iran. NIOC was established in 1948 and restructured under The..." | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Iranian_Oil_Company
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** please
**\<sgp\_\>** still, we should have an idea what to do going forward
**\<nioc\>** I guess that I should be banned
**\<rottensox\>** ErCiccione[m]: Who - 'My name is Moeen Mohamadi, a native Persian speaker.' https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge\_requests/133
**\<rottensox\>** who posted suspected what if it's alreayd there?
**\<selsta\>** You can find real info of a lot of people by just googling, does mean it is okay. If they don’t link to their linkedin, you also shouldn’t in public.
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** eh?
**\<sgp\_\>** let's make sure this discussion doesn't get derailed too much into a mostly-unrelated topic
**\<needmonero90\>** Selsta: are we not allowed to look into the usernames of people we fund?
**\<needmonero90\>** Should we ignore that username histories exist?
**\<needmonero90\>** Are we not allowed to mention the results of the first page of a Google search?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm focusing just on making sure the CCS doesn't have unnecessary liability for donors, CCS proposers, and Core
**\<needmonero90\>** Exactly what kind of due diligence do you think is acceptable
**\<sgp\_\>** needmonero90: maybe it's best to table that question for now
**\<needmonero90\>** Because expecting people to not Google a username and report on it is silly
**\<needmonero90\>** This is someone we're paying money...
**\<needmonero90\>** Anyways.
**\<rehrar\>** I sympathize with needmoney90 here somewhat. If someone new is asking for funds, to decide if this person is deserving someone might do a Google.
**\<kinghat[m]\>** maybe a longer term goal would be to setup a type of DAO that way nobody is responsible 🤷‍♂️
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** nm90: OSINT is technically fair game, but I digress
**\<needmonero90\>** Googling the username of a potential donee strikes me as like, the very basic of basic due diligence
**\<needmonero90\>** Exactly how else do you look into a person's history
**\<selsta\>** rehrar: Googling a person is okay. Posting their linkedin without asking isn’t. If there are doubts, core can do this in private.
**\<needmonero90\>** The username is like, the first thread
**\<needmonero90\>** Literally the first hit for his username
**\<needmonero90\>** How is reporting the first thing returned about his username doxxing
**\<nioc\>** given that nobody knows who donated to which CCS, who is responsible?
**\<needmonero90\>** Sorry for carrying on sgp
**\<sgp\_\>** ok I need to cut this off, we need to take a step back since the discussion on what is fair to research isn't going to go anywhere
**\<needmonero90\>** I'm done
**\<sgp\_\>** point is rehrar I'm representing a community's perspective in saying that your desired solution may not be adequate for the safety/liability of donors, CCS proposers and the funds they receive, etc. I genuinely think it's worth coming up with a ToS
**\<sgp\_\>** even if Core doesn't care, other people might
**\<rehrar\>** Then people should assess the risk of donating to the CCS.
**\<rehrar\>** I will bring it up with core, but I'm certain they will not be happy with making a ToS.
**\<sgp\_\>** well if the risk is high to the point the platform is useless, that's a community problem
**\<selsta\>** not sure why we should create a ToS for someone else.
**\<needmonero90\>** Like by being informed if there's a potential legal risk with donating to a certain proposal?
**\<sgp\_\>** ^
**\<rehrar\>** sgp\_: then let it be so.
**\<sgp\_\>** great :/
**\<rehrar\>** This is Monero, guys. We aren't Zcash.
**\<needmonero90\>** And we also don't want to open ourselves up to an easy attack
**\<rehrar\>** If the risk is too great for some on scary proposals, then don't donate.
**\<rehrar\>** Many/most proposals don't have this issue and won't carry risk.
**\<needmonero90\>** We already had proposals from venezuelans
**\<sgp\_\>** the perception of a risky platform is a huge concern
**\<needmonero90\>** So we crossed the line already
**\<kinghat[m]\>** ✊
**\<nioc\>** •sgp\_> well if the risk is high to the point the platform is useless, that's a community problem <-- sending 3xmr is high risk?
**\<needmonero90\>** We should have had this discussion before any sanctioned countries came into the cross hair, but the discussion is happening now.
**\<sgp\_\>** nioc: potentially, "it depends"
**\<needmonero90\>** [conversation totally over]
**\<rehrar\>** Just shut up if about if you donated or not?
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** all this is way overamplified
**\<selsta\>** Core team has lawyers. They should decide all this. No one is a lawyer here so the discussion is useless.
**\<sgp\_\>** in any case, I think we can move on for now. discussions can continue on Github or whatever
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Mining outreach, Ministo (40 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/124
**\<sgp\_\>** No movement on this in a month, so I will skip. Feedback was mostly negative last time we discussed it.
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** selsta: +1
**\<sgp\_\>** [Monero Aligned] Proposal for 1M5 Integration as Proxy, Brian Taylor (150 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/127
**\<sgp\_\>** No movement on this in a month, so I will skip.
**\<sgp\_\>** Norwegian translation of webplate + footers + nav. Menu, Chris Avis (6 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/129
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone know the status of this?
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar do you recall if this was discussed last meeting?
**\<ErCiccione[m]\>** I'm ok with it. Fair price good quality
**\<sgp\_\>** any other comments here? otherwise I think it can be moved
**\<rehrar\>** I don't recall.
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Debian Package Repository for 2 years, Patrick Schleizer (60 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/130
**\<sgp\_\>** Do we need to discuss this one further?
**\<rehrar\>** I say no. It should be moved.
**\<rehrar\>** Although prices on all of these should maybe be adjusted?
**\<sgp\_\>** right, I encourage you and luigi to reping ones to be moved for a chance to update if needed
**\<rehrar\>** Sounds good. I'll ping him now.
**\<sgp\_\>** erciccione: part time work (April-May) on Getmonero.org https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/134
**\<sgp\_\>** approval from me
**\<selsta\>** I also gsve a +1
**\<sgp\_\>** Persian translation of the GUI wallet https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/133
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione[m]: you expressed some concerns?
**\<ErCiccione\>** I say no. Most because of the high price and the fact that everything he writes is in an english more broken than mine
**\<ErCiccione\>** for that rate, i would expect a professional translator with a super CV
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks, good to know
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** And thus English comprehension may not be adequate I take it?
**\<nioc\>** +1 for ErCiccione's proposal
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** I also deemed his comments toward the community quite negative
**\<TrasherDK\>** Second that.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Plus no track record of voluntary work on Monero (related) projects
**\<TrasherDK\>** That too.
**\<ErCiccione\>** i agree dEBRUYNE that was the nail of the coffin from me, very bad attitude
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, sounds like a recommendation to reject there
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other CCS comments before we move on?
**\<ErCiccione\>** (Thanks for the support btw selsta nioc sgp\_)
**\<ErCiccione\>** i would have suggested him to ask half what is asking, but after his behaviour it's just a nono
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: you're a frequent leader, we need more of that
**\<ErCiccione\>** onward!
**\<ErCiccione\>** :P
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** \<ErCiccione\> (Thanks for the support btw selsta nioc sgp\_) <= Another +1 from me :p
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** ErCiccione: Also him using the maximum rate of the rate bound you suggested
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** new point release is out
**\<ErCiccione\>** dEBRUYNE: yeah that was sad (thank you too btw)
**\<sgp\_\>** https://getmonero.org/2020/03/19/monero-0.15.0.5-released.html
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** go ahead
**\<ErCiccione\>** Not much, but now the roadmap of the website is translatable on weblate
**\<ErCiccione\>** but
**\<ErCiccione\>** outreach folks are looking for people to create articles/art and whatever in languages different from english
**\<ErCiccione\>** so if anybody has anything to offer, get in touch with them
**\<ErCiccione\>** and one good news
**\<ErCiccione\>** can be that weblate soon will be able to translate plain markdown files
**\<ErCiccione\>** that could be useful to all workgroups, because would give the possibility to translate stuff that wasn't possible to translate before
**\<ErCiccione\>** so, keeping an eye on that
**\<ErCiccione\>** And there is big need of translators for the website:
**\<ErCiccione\>** https://translate.getmonero.org/projects/getmonero/monero-site/
**\<ErCiccione\>** so if you can and have time, please translate stuff
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's it
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm looking forward to the markdown feature
**\<rehrar\>** I have something to discuss when this we ready for open ideas time.
**\<sgp\_\>** noted rehrar
**\<ErCiccione\>** yeah, would solve the problem of the documentation of getmonero.
**\<sgp\_\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** https://getmonero.org/2020/03/05/monero-GUI-0.15.0.4-released.html
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Outreach workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** Is anyone from outreach here?
**\<selsta\>** I can give a small GUI update
**\<sgp\_\>** otherwise I'll just tease that there is a new article coming out soon with no other details
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: that would be much appreciated, thanks
**\<selsta\>** xiphon is working on an update downloader
**\<selsta\>** so that the GUI automatically downloads a new update, verifies the hashes and opens the folder containing the new version
**\<sarang\>** Does/will it use the stuff that moneromooo built for doing this?
**\<selsta\>** I think it shares some code but mooos tool is only for CLI currently as GUI has no reproducible builds yet
**\<rehrar\>** What's the word on that btw?
**\<rehrar\>** Reproducible builds for the GUI?
**\<selsta\>** still work in progress
**\<selsta\>** will take a while
**\<selsta\>** but progress is made already, you can build with cmake on linux and windows
**\<selsta\>** ok that’s all for GUI
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: I added a reminder to my notes to ask you for an update next time
**\<sgp\_\>** e. Website workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione: you have the floor again
**\<ErCiccione\>** yay
**\<ErCiccione\>** i posted updates here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/foooc6/getmoneroorg\_updated_new_roadmap_page_1_new/
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] Getmonero.org updated: New roadmap page, 1 new moneropedia entry, 1 new FAQ entry, new MRL paper, updated guides and more (self.Monero) | 52 points (86.0%) | 11 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-03-25 - 11:23:58
**\<ErCiccione\>** as i said, the roadmap has now a different structure, it's translatable on weblate and it's much easier to update
**\<ErCiccione\>** i have some open MR that need testing, so please take a look: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/monero-site/-/merge\_requests
**\<ErCiccione\>** Currently working on adding another moneropedia entry and on the FAQ
**\<kinghat[m]\>** <selsta "but progress is made already, yo"> reproducible build on linux and win?
**\<selsta\>** no, only cmake
**\<selsta\>** which is a first step to reproducible builds
**\<kinghat[m]\>** not sure what that looks like on actual IRC btw
**\<sgp\_\>** You also commented in a related discussion to move the website back to Github: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/236#issuecomment-605023567
**\<kinghat[m]\>** thanks selsta
**\<ErCiccione\>** yes sgp\_ i finally capitulated and now i agree we should move back monero-site to github
**\<ErCiccione\>** reasons explained in the comment you posted
**\<kinghat[m]\>** whats the word on the GUI builds for the current release?
**\<ErCiccione\>** hope core agrees and we can move back in a reasonable timeframe
**\<sgp\_\>** I agree fwiw since I often forget to check Gitlab
**\<kinghat[m]\>** 0.15.0.5\*
**\<ErCiccione\>** i think that's the case for many
**\<selsta\>** kinghat[m]: Snipa does builds and he is a bit busy with setting up WFH for his workplace due to current events.
**\<selsta\>** so should be out some time, not sure when yet
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm going to move on to the next update since we absolutely need to get to it, thanks selsta kinghat[m] and ErCiccione
**\<kinghat[m]\>** understandable. tyvm.
**\<sgp\_\>** f. Monero Research Lab
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<sgp\_\>** Sarang Noether has an important update on the Monero Research Lab
**\<sarang\>** My colleague suraeNoether stated in an earlier MRL meeting that he would have extremely limited availability for the time being
**\<sarang\>** partly because of this, CLSAG had been delayed while I waited on his approval/fixes for the preprint (he is a coauthor)
**\<sarang\>** I've since received his permission to just make changes and post the preprint
**\<sarang\>** So
**\<sarang\>** If anyone has ideas and thoughts about what they feel should be research priorities going forward, please join the next #monero-research-lab meeting on Wednesday at 17:00 UTC
**\<sarang\>** Because of this change, I'm now completing final proofreading of the CLSAG preprint
**\<sarang\>** and finalizing some optimized code for later audit/review
**\<sarang\>** as well as coordinating trezor/ledger support so it's ready to go
**\<sarang\>** Separately, Triptych-2 was posted to IACR, and I'm working on some multisig and join-type math for it
**\<sgp\_\>** Do you expect to be the only full-time researcher for the foreseeable future?
**\<sarang\>** I am currently the only CCS-supported full-time researcher
**\<sarang\>** and I do not know when/if suraeNoether will choose to do full-time research
**\<sarang\>** I don't want to speak for him
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for the update. does anyone have any questions?
**\<sarang\>** So anyway, I'm working hard to get a lot of projects moving forward
**\<sarang\>** and will continue to do the best I can
**\<kinghat[m]\>** 🙏
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: can you provide a nice overview of projects before the wednesday meeting?
**\<sarang\>** You mean an overview right now?
**\<sarang\>** Sure
**\<sarang\>** Or just post to a github gist for easy reading?
**\<sgp\_\>** I was more thinking a gist, yes
**\<sarang\>** Sure
**\<sgp\_\>** thank you
**\<sarang\>** Will post a link here and in -lab later today
**\<sarang\>** See -lab topic or meta github issue for meeting details
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else sarang?
**\<sarang\>** No, I don't think so
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, let's get to rehrar's thing then
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<sgp\_\>** It’s open ideas time! Feel free to propose your ideas to this discussion group, and feel free to comment on others’ ideas. If you disagree with the idea, please reply with constructive criticism. Thank you!
**\<sgp\_\>** go ahead rehrar
**\<rehrar\>** so yeah, I just wanted to get a general poll from attendees about putting together virtual meetups on a weekly or biweekly basis
**\<rehrar\>** would this be something that would just add noise? Or could it be useful for having fun (especially during these times)?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm for it but I'd rather just use Jitsi than VR
**\<needmonero90\>** so, VR really means 3d virtual space
**\<needmonero90\>** because it allows conversations to self organize
**\<M5M400\>** what kind of equipment does someone need to attend these meetings rehrar
**\<needmonero90\>** jitsi may be nice, but it has issues with multiple conversation tracks
**\<sgp\_\>** also note that we have activities planned on every Saturday next month (2 community meetings, Coffee Chat, and Moneroversary)
**\<msvb-mob\>** A normal physical lab group is doing this with Jitsi, with limited success. Mostly socialising value.
**\<rehrar\>** M5M400: a computer
**\<needmonero90\>** theres no such thing as a 'hallway track' for a broadcast event
**\<msvb-mob\>** Probably is fun for some people, so it's good that rehrar is researching.
**\<M5M400\>** rehrar: no VR goggles or anything?
**\<rehrar\>** M5M400, VR equipment not needed for the VR space.
**\<needmonero90\>** possible but not necessary
**\<rehrar\>** M5M400, want to try it out after the meeting? It's browser based.
**\<sarang\>** rehrar and I tested this earlier
**\<M5M400\>** btw thanks for bringing jitsi to my life. I deployed it at work and it's replaced stupid webex since this crisis :)
**\<rehrar\>** It will take effort to organize, and I Don't know if this is the best use of my time if it won't be used, so I just wanted to get opinions.
**\<sgp\_\>** M5M400: ikr, it's a life-saver
**\<M5M400\>** oh, I crashed into a meeting. sorry. didn't want to OT
**\<rehrar\>** M5M400, I know all of the FOSS.
**\<selsta\>** My laptop which works fine for developing is not strong enough VR so I guess you need a recent computer :P
**\<msvb-mob\>** rehrar: What was the results of testing the Mozilla meeting tool?
**\<rehrar\>** msvb-mob: everyone thought positively of it after use
**\<rehrar\>** it's quite versatile
**\<msvb-mob\>** The name?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm happy to announce a meeting in whatever format to the Monero Chicago meetup group
**\<sarang\>** The only downside was that volume is distance-dependent
**\<sarang\>** so it seemed unsuitable for a lecture-type event
**\<rehrar\>** msvb-mob: Mozilla Hubs
**\<sarang\>** as in, moving farther away from a speaker's avatar makes them quieter, as in real life
**\<rehrar\>** sarang: we tested and you can turn the speaker up
**\<sarang\>** Oh neat, nvm them
**\<sarang\>** \*then
**\<rehrar\>** so much so that you can hear them from far away
**\<msvb-mob\>** sarang: The volume problem is when using Mozilla Hubs or another tool?
**\<rehrar\>** Hubs, but it's not a problem.
**\<sarang\>** the Mozilla tool that rehrar and I had tested
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar just wants to make sure we can't avoid his rants
**\<sarang\>** so I withdraw my comment msvb-mob
**\<rehrar\>** https://hub.link/ktcMqWR
**\<rottensox\>** lol.
**\<rehrar\>** hop on sarang, sgp\_, msvb-mob, rottensox, M5M400
**\<sarang\>** I unfortunately cannot (other tasks to complete today)
**\<rehrar\>** ok
**\<sgp\_\>** see this is a case where jitsi is slightly easier since I want to be on while I make pancakes
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** I'm down for reoccuring VR meetups
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else? I'll see if I can hop on while cooking
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Or perhaps I should say 'VR' given technically you don't need a VR setup to use Mozilla Hubs
**\<kinghat[m]\>** as a long term goal why not look into a type of DOA for funding. not controlled centrally, no liability.
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm going to wrap up the formal meeting now. Thanks for the idea rehrar; I think it's a good one
**\<rehrar\>** Coo
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 11 April at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is next week on 4 April at 17:00 UTC. The Moneroversary is on April 18.
**\<sgp\_\>** expect next meeting to mostly be about planning the moneroversary (maybe I'll schedule 2 hours)
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-04-11
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/455
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<geonic\>** morning!
**\<ajs\_\>** hi
**\<rehrar\>** Hi guiz
**\<msvb-mob\>** Hello.
**\<sarang\>** hi
**\<hyc\>** hey
**\<sgp\_\>** needbrrrrrrr90
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione[m]:
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta
**\<sgp\_\>** vtnerd
\* needbrrrrrrr90 yawns
**\<kinghat[m]\>** o/
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate ArticMine geonic Isthmus jtgrassie M5M400
**\<sgp\_\>** xmrscott[m]
**\<sgp\_\>** (trying to get a full house in here for the Monerversary planning later)
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. We can use this page to more easily organize Monero Community Workgroup resources going forward. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Means Money was released yesterday! Please consider renting this film to support indie theaters: https://moneromeans.money
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<rehrar\>** Revuo not released yet. Will release today.
**\<sgp\_\>** We have a huge amount of info to get through for the Moneroversary, so in the interest of time, there's a small rule change.
**\<sgp\_\>** Please comment if you have a workgroup report by messaging “Workgroup Update: [workgroup name]” any time before part 4 of the meeting, or else your section may be skipped.
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
\* sgp\_ ErCiccione: 3 more months part time work on Getmonero.org (36.33/180 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/erciccione-website1.html
**\<sgp\_\>** I didn't mean to make that /me, oops
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** There is only one new idea, so I will recap to luigi1111 and rehrar about the status of the proposals we discussed two weeks ago. Please comment after if you have any further comments on these.
**\<sgp\_\>** Mining outreach, Ministo (40 XMR) REJECT/ADJUST https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/124
**\<rehrar\>** A note on the CCS. As you can see nothing has been merged in a while, besides sarang. This is due to the recent volatility, and we will begin merging again soon.
**\<sgp\_\>** [Monero Aligned] Proposal for 1M5 Integration as Proxy, Brian Taylor (150 XMR) REJECT/ADJUST https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/127
**\<sgp\_\>** Norwegian translation of webplate + footers + nav. Menu, Chris Avis (6 XMR) MOVE TO FR https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/129
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Debian Package Repository for 2 years, Patrick Schleizer (60 XMR) MOVE TO FR https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/130
**\<rehrar\>** Anyone with an open CCS proposal is encouraged to go and update to current prices.
**\<sgp\_\>** Any comments on these that is different than my summary?
\* ErCiccione[m] mostly afk
**\<sgp\_\>** Updated/new “Persian GUI translation” https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/136
**\<sgp\_\>** I think there are some concerns about the contributor, and that we would feel more comfortable with them opening a CCS after making other contributions first. People were generally negative about their previous proposal
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Updated means account deleted twice and reposted and has repeatedly spammed us about it on /r/Monero
**\<hyc\>** that'd earn a hard No from me
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Idk what's going on with it, but strongly recommend against. I gave misgivings about his future interactions should he get accepted.
**\<rehrar\>** For an individual like this I would not recommend moving until there is volunteer work. No exceptions.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** s/gave/have
**\<monerobux\>** needbrrrrrrr90 meant to say: Idk what's going on with it, but strongly recommend against. I have misgivings about his future interactions should he get accepted.
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other opinions on this or other CCS items before we move on?
**\<hyc\>** speaks very poorly of reliability/trustworthiness
**\<rehrar\>** I have something to discuss that is....core team related. Where would this fit?
**\<sgp\_\>** is it about CCS things? maybe this could be the Core Team workgorup report
**\<rehrar\>** Uh. Sure. Not a CCS.
**\<sgp\_\>** okay
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Research Lab
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang, go
**\<sarang\>** Sure
**\<sarang\>** I have some initial C++ code for Triptych, which is showing good results
**\<sarang\>** UkoeHB\_ (who might not be here for this meeting) posted their major update to Zero to Monero on getmonero.org
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm looking to publish a paperback version of that btw with the Mastering Monero team
**\<sarang\>** And there's still assorted work on CLSAG implementation
**\<sarang\>** neat
**\<sarang\>** As usual, weekly research meeting on Wednesday at 17:00 UTC for anyone interested
**\<selsta\>** I can give a short CLI / GUI update
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: anything else?
**\<sarang\>** Those are the major items
**\<sgp\_\>** okay, we can move on to selsta
**\<sgp\_\>** CLI / GUI
**\<selsta\>** okay, Dandelion is now reviewed, meaning that v0.15.1.0 is almost ready, only a few more merges left and then we can branch
**\<selsta\>** GUI is getting an auto updater: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/2819
**\<selsta\>** ok that’s it
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** Core Team
**\<sgp\_\>** go rehrar
**\<rehrar\>** Ok. Two things from me.
**\<rehrar\>** 1. The GF transparency report is almost done. This one is taking a bit longer because we're trying to give account for the entirety of the time the GF has been alive. This is a one time thing and then we'll focus on quarters after that or something.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** \o/
**\<rehrar\>** Pre-2019 will be just general accounting. Greater focus on 2019 in terms of what went where.
**\<rehrar\>** Trying to wrangle the memories of people involved for such things.
**\<rehrar\>** 2. I'd like to solicit feedback on the newly proposed MRL Fund. I'm not going to reveal what's been worked on by me in the background as to it's structure because I want to hear fresh and original ideas not tainted by mine.
**\<sgp\_\>** Is there an official contact point for comments?
**\<rehrar\>** If the goal is to ensure a fund, separate from the CCS, that MRL researchers are able to apply and get consistent monthly funding from (at current market value as of that month), what are some requirements that you think the core team should put in place for these researchers in terms of communication, engagement, and other?
**\<rehrar\>** Me.
**\<sgp\_\>** I strongly advise some other, clearly stated contact method shared on Reddit
**\<rehrar\>** But just if anything is on the top of your head that you'd like to see (or NOT see so as not to have unnecessary red tape or burden), please let me know.
**\<rehrar\>** Sgp this is not going to the general community. It's going to this meeting.
**\<sgp\_\>** I mean I don't have time now to give all my thoughts here. We need to be planning for the Moneroversary
**\<rehrar\>** Ok. If that takes priority then that's that.
**\<rehrar\>** Anyone can send me a message with an idea if they have it.
**\<sgp\_\>** Ok, I hope this is an initial feedback process and then you will collect feedback from the broader community later more formally/clearly
**\<sgp\_\>** Given the silence I'm going to move on to the main topic of this meeting: Moneroversary planning
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Moneroversary
**\<sgp\_\>** We need to discuss the events for the Moneroversary next Saturday. It will be 6 years since Monero was released! We need to celebrate!
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/438
**\<hyc\>** ... also right around my birthday, coincidentally ;) I'll be doubly celebrating
**\<sgp\_\>** cool cool
**\<sgp\_\>** goals for this meeting is to get a rough sketch of activities, games, times, and participants
**\<sgp\_\>** some event ideas are Coffee Chat, Happy Hour, puzzles, Monero spend activity, and a meme competition
**\<sgp\_\>** but maybe it's first best to hear when people are available next Saturday
**\<sgp\_\>** (please jump in and comment your availability or unavailability)
**\<hyc\>** Saturday looks open for me
**\<netrik182[m]\>** For me too
**\<sgp\_\>** geonic ajs msvb-mob needbrrrrrrr90 ErCiccione[m] vtnerd binaryFate rehrar Isthmus jtgrassie M5M400 xmrscott[m] when are you free next Saturday?
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Answer, yes
**\<sgp\_\>** also sarang
**\<rehrar\>** I'll be licking bus handles at that time so it may be a no for me.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Dude let's make a meetup of it Diego
**\<geonic\>** same time
**\<rehrar\>** But fr, sure. I'm good all day.
**\<sarang\>** I should be available
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** I hope the IRC room is big enough that we can all stay 6' from each other
**\<ajs\_\>** I'm free
**\<rehrar\>** I can hang in the VR room all day as well as take part in other things.
**\<sgp\_\>** good, now we have some people. Please contact others outside of this meeting to remind them. I'll make a Reddit post later today
**\<sgp\_\>** Thoughts on these events: Coffee Chat, VR Happy Hour, meme competition
**\<msvb-mob\>** Saturday normal UTC hours, like 10-20 for me.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Meme competition?
**\<sgp\_\>** I think it would be cool to give people a meme template and 10 minutes to make the best Monero-related meme they can
**\<sgp\_\>** 4 people competing in a round or so
**\<sarang\>** nice
**\<sgp\_\>** basically Drawful (which we can also play) but meme related
**\<sarang\>** Drawful is super fun
**\<sgp\_\>** I have Drawful and Jackbox 4
**\<rehrar\>** CCS to buy all the jackboxs
**\<sgp\_\>** lol
**\<sgp\_\>** Jackbox gets old no matter the version
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** I mean it's a party game
**\<sgp\_\>** needbrrrrrrr90: can you test Secret Hitler and CAH to see if that would work with a livestream?
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Sure let's do it today
**\<sgp\_\>** are there any puzzles or community challenges we can do? people solve problems like they did at defcon, though they are short/easy
**\<sgp\_\>** Is that mostly dependent on dsc_'s availability?
**\<sgp\_\>** we did Kahoot trivia last year. I think we could do that again
**\<sgp\_\>** we did a crossword last year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqyU5IX4wTo
**\<monerobux\>** [ Monero Puzzle w/needmoney90 - 5th Moneroversary 2019 - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Is there anything we should do on a more serious note? Dedicated Q&A?
**\<sgp\_\>** I need your creative juices to be flowing people!
**\<sgp\_\>** Else I'm just going to make a program and you're going to like it lol
**\<sgp\_\>** okay, I will make and share a preliminary schedule today. I would like it to be effectively finalized by Monday so we can help promote the event
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: should I reuse your last year's Moneroversary materials, or is a minor refresh needed?
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm happy to reuse them since they are good
**\<rehrar\>** You tell me.
**\<sgp\_\>** okay, I'll reuse them
**\<rehrar\>** If you want refresh, I can do it this week.
**\<rehrar\>** Ok.
**\<sarang\>** How will you be making the schedule? Is it collaborative?
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: I'm just going to put ideas on paper and then we can talk about how to change/reschedule
**\<sgp\_\>** My guess is that people want something on paper to review
**\<sarang\>** roger
**\<sgp\_\>** Thoughts on 15-30 minute themed Q&A sessions or update sessions?
**\<sarang\>** How might that work?
**\<sgp\_\>** Basically have a few mins set aside to talk about a specific topic, eg: MRL, dev, compliance, adoption
**\<sarang\>** Moderated?
**\<sgp\_\>** could be
**\<sgp\_\>** that would probably be better
**\<sgp\_\>** Final thoughts on the Moneroversary? Else I'll get working and wrap this meeting up
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 25 April at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The Moneroversary is on Saturday April 18 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/438
**\<sgp\_\>** 7. Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** Please remember rehrar if you have comments about the Core Team fund
**\<sgp\_\>** sorry, MRL fund
**\<hyc\>** MRL fund
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-04-25
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<kinghat[m]\>** o/
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/457
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<msvb-mob\>** Hello.
**\<binaryFate\>** random guy runs a community meeting
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Osu~
**\<netrik182\>** hi
**\<deedledea\>** hi!
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: lmao
**\<ajs-mob\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. We can use this page to more easily organize Monero Community Workgroup resources going forward. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Debian Package Repository for 2 years (42.54 / 73 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/adrelanos-debian-package.html
**\<sgp\_\>** xiphon part-time coding (3 months) (69.09 / 371 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/adrelanos-debian-package.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Translation of Mastering Monero into Brazilian Portuguese (37 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/137
**\<sgp\_\>** Note: I have a financial interest in Mastering Monero
**\<rehrar\>** profiteering
**\<rehrar\>** reeee
**\<netrik182\>** I proposed translating Mastering Monero if anyone has questions
**\<netrik182\>** There was a reddit post as well: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/g3vqoi/my\_ccs_proposal_to_translate_mastering_monero_is/
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks for being here netrik182. they helped us a TON with the subtitles for Monero Means Money
**\<Inge-\>** does it have any other language translations?
**\<ArticMine\>** hi
**\<netrik182\>** I don't think so
**\<binaryFate\>** how different are portuguese vs. brazilian? Is there strong value in having a brazilian specific version? I didn't see mention of that in the proposal
**\<netrik182\>** Almost no difference really
**\<sgp\_\>** Inge-: there's a Chinese translation zh.masteringmonero.com and a partially reviewed Russian translation
**\<binaryFate\>** so it's going to be easy and comfortable to read for portuguese people as well?
**\<Inge-\>** Spanish would be great too
**\<netrik182\>** But as Brazilian I would do so called Brazilian Portuguese instead of European, so to speak
**\<rehrar\>** "so to speak" hehe, I get it
**\<netrik182\>** Not a problem at all binaryFate
\* Inge- is positive to Brazilian translation
**\<netrik182\>** Most of the online content in portuguese is written by brazilians
**\<netrik182\>** but everyone can read it
**\<binaryFate\>** oki thanks
**\<netrik182\>** think of Britain vs USA English
**\<netrik182\>** it's the same
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other questions or feedback?
**\<sgp\_\>** ok, second one
**\<sgp\_\>** Compilation time reduction and housekeeping (52 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/138
**\<sgp\_\>** you need to click on "changes" to see the text
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** I believe this would help with the issues Endogenic highlighted at Konferenco
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Thus, I'd like to see it
**\<rehrar\>** Thusly
**\<endogenic\>** ossssssu
**\<binaryFate\>** Proposal looks interesting but I didn't follow the -dev discussions about it, anybody knows?
**\<rehrar\>** A note on the CCS proposals, the Norwegian one was merged and it's not showing. I tried to fix and it's still not showing. Working that out.
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: I don't see a dev discussion in the past week
**\<binaryFate\>** mmm I thought I had skeemed through some mentions of this
**\<asymptotically\>** i think i last talked in -dev with the compile time speedup guy, so if you grep your logs for me it should come up :D
**\<sgp\_\>** any comments on this otherwise?
\* needbrrrrrrr90 sneaks in the back entrance and takes a seat
**\<sgp\_\>** messy logs of the discussion https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/73V4aGO4/logs
**\<sgp\_\>** we can move on. please comment in gitlab. looking at you devs :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** luigi merged a bunch of things, including dandelion++
**\<sgp\_\>** does anyone else have an update here? else we can move to b
**\<sgp\_\>** is ErCiccione[m] here?
**\<cankerwort\>** when next release?
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: do you know when the next dev meeting is?
**\<sgp\_\>** tomorrow?
**\<cankerwort\>** dandelion++ for the masses
**\<netrik182\>** ErCiccione was not feeling well during the week so probably not here
**\<rehrar\>** sgp\_: whenever we want it to be. People had voiced that dev meetings should be kind of before releases and stuff, but if we wanted to set one up then we can.
**\<sgp\_\>** rehrar: ok, keep me updated so I can update the calendar
**\<sgp\_\>** cankerwort: unfortunately I don't really have a good update
**\<sgp\_\>** if ErCiccione isn't here, we can move on to c
**\<sgp\_\>** c. GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta any update?
**\<selsta\>** we are preparing for the next update
**\<selsta\>** no big updates otherwise
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** is sarang here?
**\<sgp\_\>** We can move on to 5. Open ideas time
**\<selsta\>** 19:12 <sgp\_> Compilation time reduction and housekeeping (52 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/138 <-- I think mooo and others should agree first if they want this
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: yeah
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Pi/Rock node is currently looking for WEb UI folk: https://www.reddit.com/r/pinode/comments/fuwryy/pinodexmr\_updated_full_node_for_single_board/
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] PiNode-XMR updated. Full node ( for single board computers ) not just Raspberry Pi --- Armbian Buster & Hardware testers needed. New Web UI proposal with help needed from the community. (self.pinode) | 6 points (100.0%) | 3 comments | Posted by shermand100 | Created at 2020-04-04 - 16:40:22
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have topics to discuss? It's been a long time since the last open ideas time
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** (This is the monero-ecosystem/pinode-XMR project)
**\<sgp\_\>** xmrscott[m]: cool :)
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Namely, they want to build a Web dashboard from scratch to shed a bunch of extra weight they inherited from basically pulling a cookie cutter
**\<sgp\_\>** Moneroversary debrief: so far this year’s main livestream has 1,025 and 255.5 hours of watch time. Last year’s Moneroversary main livestream has 1,337 views and 440 hours of watch time. Like last year, not many people are watching the events afterwards.
**\<sgp\_\>** \*1,025 views
**\<sgp\_\>** Since the community feedback on a Chatwoot service by the Core Team seemed mostly negative, I plan on making my own which I hope to integrate in as many Monero accounts/pages/etc as possible
**\<sgp\_\>** This is a chat support service that I think could benefit newcomers and those with questions
**\<sgp\_\>** It will allow us to learn more clearly what the pain points are so we can fix them
**\<binaryFate\>** summary of negative feedback?
**\<deedledea\>** pain points of newcomers?
**\<sgp\_\>** And I will make a series of trainings that people can use to get up to speed to be able to answer questions
**\<sgp\_\>** deedledea: yes
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: people didn't want it embedded on the getmonero site, people were concerned about legal stuff, and people were pessimistic that the tool should be used over other support services like StackExchange and reading the docs
**\<binaryFate\>** ok so more about the location itself
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm heavily considering making this my own thing, so any feedback on how to do this best is welcome :)
**\<sgp\_\>** what other projects are people thinking of? we need people to take on fun projects and get stuff done
**\<netrik182\>** there were some discussions about revamping getmonero.org home-page to be more beginner-friendly
**\<sgp\_\>** netrik182: oh yes, let me find that github issue/PR
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/948
**\<sgp\_\>** I recommended another card that has icons for the following: 1) private for all, 2) coin equality, 3) secure
**\<sgp\_\>** I like "coin equality" over "fungibility" in this context
**\<binaryFate\>** I hate the old video on the front page, particularly because it says "more than 30 developers"
**\<binaryFate\>** This was made in 2015 or 16 I think. Now there is more than 300.
**\<sgp\_\>** haha same. iirc there are resources available to edit that sorta easily?
**\<cankerwort\>** what sites would you be putting this chatwoot on sgp?
**\<sgp\_\>** people still quote the >30 number so it's an issue for press
**\<binaryFate\>** we had people reaching out fairly recently for a documentary on crypto asking if they could use that video
**\<binaryFate\>** painfull to say "yes but it's outdated! Now it's..." knowing they'll just use the video period.
**\<sgp\_\>** cankerwort: its own dedicated site, ideally the @monero twitter for DMs if people think that's a good idea, and r/monerosupport (again if people think it's a good idea)
**\<sgp\_\>** binaryFate: good point
**\<sgp\_\>** also all the Kovri references
**\<binaryFate\>** Is there someone in the community that could assess cost/effort of changing that numbers and also maybe redo video. It's not a very intricate one.
**\<ArticMine\>** So the video needs to be updated
**\<rehrar\>** binaryFate: we're a tiny coin
**\<ArticMine\>** that gas grown 1000 since the video was created
**\<ArticMine\>** has
**\<rehrar\>** what was the guy's name that made it? silvestra?
**\<binaryFate\>** rehrar I wish... was so cozy!
**\<sgp\_\>** here are the scripts/translations. I'm looking for the other repo https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/promo-video
**\<sgp\_\>** savandra! https://github.com/savandra/Monero_Promo_Video
**\<rehrar\>** that's it!
**\<rehrar\>** maybe we can track him down and see if he'd be willing to do an edit
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/savandra/Monero_Promo_Video/blob/master/Illustrator_Vectors/monero%20developers.ai
**\<selsta\>** we have to find out who did the voice over
**\<sgp\_\>** just have Doug do it :p
**\<binaryFate\>** I'd venture that we can redo the voice over with a different voice :)
**\<asymptotically\>** i nominate rehrar or jwinterm! just because i love listening to them <3
**\<rehrar\>** rehrar: "What up scrubs? This video is about Moh-neh-roh!"
**\<binaryFate\>** Probably just 50$ on upwork if you want same kind of deep professional voice
**\<rehrar\>** I do have a super fancy mic, as most of you have seen.
**\<selsta\>** I think having it sound professional would be important, especially because voice overs aren’t to costly
**\<rehrar\>** :(
**\<selsta\>** too\*
**\<selsta\>** you can do a version rehrar :D
**\<sgp\_\>** voiceover tryouts
**\<rehrar\>** I'll put my version on http://getmonono.org
**\<binaryFate\>** yes please
**\<ajs-mob\>** I could help with editing the video
**\<binaryFate\>** perfect and thank you
**\<sgp\_\>** does anyone have Adobe AfterEffects?
**\<rehrar\>** I do, but I don't know how to use it.
**\<cankerwort\>** "Monono has over -1 developers"
**\<xmrscott[m]\>** Always KdenLive as well
**\<rehrar\>** this is technially true
**\<sgp\_\>** no numbers
**\<rehrar\>** Monero has over x developers
**\<sgp\_\>** "Monero has a large, active development community"
**\<rehrar\>** "Monero has developers"
**\<selsta\>** not sure if having had 300+ code contributions means monero has 300 developers
**\<selsta\>** 300+ code contributions from different accounts
**\<selsta\>** maybe "over 250+ people contributed with an active development community"
**\<binaryFate\>** it's the third largest crypto in number of developers after BTC or ETH, this should be conveyed clearly one way or another
**\<selsta\>** or so
**\<binaryFate\>** I think you're being too careful/shy on this particular instance selsta. It's a video where we can't use unclear longer phrasing or waste words
**\<selsta\>** maybe :D
**\<binaryFate\>** All the rest of the Monero content is always so careful and honest... at least with this we can make a clear statement
**\<sgp\_\>** "one of the largest open-source developer communities"
**\<sgp\_\>** I'm trying to choose wording that also lasts
**\<binaryFate\>** better, but honestly any coin would say so
**\<selsta\>** yea I’m better not involved with this video lol
**\<binaryFate\>** We don't need to make a video valid for 4 years
**\<sgp\_\>** this one has been used for 3
**\<binaryFate\>** "with X developers, it's the third largest development communicty after Bitcoin and Ethereum"
**\<sgp\_\>** just remove "with X developers"
**\<deedledea\>** @sgp if you want any tests for a non-technical-audience on the content just let me know...I can wrangle up a few I am sure!
**\<sgp\_\>** deedledea: that's SUPER helpful; I'll keep that in mind
**\<selsta\>** should the target audience be crypto users?
**\<selsta\>** because I’ve always found the block reward part confusing in this video
**\<selsta\>** people who are not familiar with crypto don’t know what a block reward is
**\<binaryFate\>** IMO audience is layman journalist or complete newb
**\<rehrar\>** Let's have a first step being writing up a new script.
**\<rehrar\>** We can talk about voice work and discuss how much of the visuals need to be changed after we have a good script.
**\<rehrar\>** The cryptocurrency space is different today than it was three years ago.
**\<rehrar\>** The average 'noob' is also different.
**\<sgp\_\>** I'd like to make a main goal to keep as many visuals the same unless we know we have the skills to adapt
**\<sgp\_\>** something along these lines in the ideal case: https://twitter.com/Bitcoin/status/1253656381711888391
**\<monerobux\>** [ Bitcoin on Twitter: "Bitcoin explained in two minutes… " ] - twitter.com
**\<sgp\_\>** though even shorter
**\<sgp\_\>** anyway, we have one project to work on. please think of others today that YOU can work on this week
**\<sgp\_\>** for the sake of time, I'll wrap this meeting
**\<deedledea\>** visuals are always good! ideally there would be videos for different audiences, but if we are talking about gaining a few different audiences at once (i.e. that it's technical enough to peek the interest of developers and digestible enough for the non-technical to want to explore more) then content creation and communication is tricky. I like the challenge, I'll think more on it on my end!
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 9 May at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 2 May at 17:00 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-05-09
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/461
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<netrik182[m]\>** hi
**\<msvb-mob\>** Hello.
**\<ArticMine\>** hi
**\<sgp\_\>** ping needbrrrrrrr90 ErCiccione[m] sarang xmrscott[m]
**\<sgp\_\>** the mighty Salazar is on vacation, so I'll let him be :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
\* needbrrrrrrr90 grumbles
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
\* needbrrrrrrr90 rolls over
**\<sgp\_\>** Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** We have a new mod on xmrtrader
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Xmr2020
**\<sgp\_\>** I saw, very nice
**\<sgp\_\>** have views/comments been up?
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Nope
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Prep for it
**\<sgp\_\>** got it
**\<sgp\_\>** Mostly because of Monero Means Money, the MCW YouTube channel's monthly views are up >999% since last month. Monthly impressions are up 468%, monthly CTR is up 53%, monthly watch time is up 967%, and monthly new subscribers are up 832%
**\<sgp\_\>** The views for the film are not slowing down much either. For the most part, it’s a linear line https://i.imgur.com/Gs9acTR.png
**\<sgp\_\>** I referred Diego to Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. I emailed them asking that they include a Monero perspective and they seem to be open to it so far. We should continue doing this (I can give you a receive-only/forwarded @communityworkgroup.org email address if you want to do outreach)
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone else have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<msvb-mob\>** I was hoping to ask rehrar about his nonworkgroup virtual meeting research.
**\<msvb-mob\>** Does anybody know how far he got with that, anything conclusive (best platform) or did he write anything searchable?
**\<sgp\_\>** He probably won't be here today, but I know he likes using Mozilla Hubs
**\<sgp\_\>** and I've heard Zoom's breakout feature actually works, but I haven't tested that and it's not very Monero-friendly
**\<sgp\_\>** for other questions on this, can you bring them up during open ideas time?
**\<msvb-mob\>** So sgp do you think rehrar abandoned the virtual world servers, the ones that felt like minecraft?
**\<msvb-mob\>** Okay, we can review later on...
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** All proposals are fully-funded!
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Translation of Mastering Monero into Brazilian Portuguese (37 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/137
**\<sgp\_\>** luigi1111, I thought this was supposed to be merged already? ^
**\<sgp\_\>** unless there are other comments on this one, I believe it already should have been merged
**\<netrik182[m]\>** if anyone has questions please do it
**\<sgp\_\>** Compilation time reduction and housekeeping (52 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/138
**\<sgp\_\>** xmrscott[m] shared his support for this in the proposal
**\<sgp\_\>** I encourage the Monero devs to include a summary of their discussions there
**\<sgp\_\>** Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (603 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/142
**\<sgp\_\>** I added a comment that I like the new scope for this proposal
**\<sarang\>** Yeah, Isthmus and I had discussed the scope and deliverables
**\<sarang\>** (note that I am not part of that CCS, just offering my advice)
**\<luigi1111w\>** .0ok
**\<sgp\_\>** a blog post helping discuss the matter clearly will be very useful
**\<sgp\_\>** has anyone else had a chance to review this proposal? I don't think Isthmus advertised it much yet
**\<sgp\_\>** I'll ping him and ask him to promote it
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other CCS comments before we move on?
**\<sarang\>** I can also ask him to discuss it at the next research meeting if he's available
**\<sgp\_\>** Oh, I want to mention that the Monero Audit Workgroup is recommending the CLSAG audit and will be making a CCS proposal for it shortly once the final SoW is completed
**\<sgp\_\>** total cost is about $15k, though some of that has already been paid for by previous donations
**\<ajs-mob\>** We might need a CCS proposal for Defcon 2020-2021 storage costs
**\<rehrar\>** I feel summoned.
**\<ajs-mob\>** payment for storage ends August
**\<rehrar\>** AJS we have a bit leftover, but I don't know if it will cover the whole year.
**\<rehrar\>** How much is it for the year?
**\<sarang\>** The recommended CLSAG audit is for Teserakt, JP Aumasson's new company
**\<sarang\>** (he was formerly with Kudelski Security)
**\<ajs-mob\>** I manage to negotiate monthly fee down to $85 from $115, which is comparable to self-storage costs.
**\<rehrar\>** I think we should have enough.
**\<ajs-mob\>** Inventory: https://monero.sandcats.io/shared/rByAjvOR-VPt6IXkh9diOZDBHteIzBvNF0KKVmBvNne
**\<rehrar\>** I'll message you.
**\<ajs-mob\>** picture of stuff: https://imgur.com/amxK7BN
**\<ajs-mob\>** okay
**\<sgp\_\>** CCS for a year of storage seems reasonable
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other final comments?
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** is selsta here?
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** the devs are preparing for the 0.16 release
**\<sgp\_\>** it will not require a hardfork
**\<selsta\>** yes
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: do you have any other cli/monerod updates?
**\<selsta\>** CLI / GUI code are ready, we will branch and then test for a week
**\<selsta\>** and then release
**\<selsta\>** testers welcome :)
**\<monerobux\>** Test failed
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Lol
**\<sarang\>** good bot
**\<selsta\>** release contains over 500 commits so it will be a major release
**\<selsta\>** Dandelion, bulletproof improvements, daemon wallet communication speed improvements, and a lot of other minor stuff and bug fixes
**\<sarang\>** \*Dandelion++
**\<selsta\>** that’s it
**\<sarang\>** They're different :)
**\<selsta\>** I know but the Bitcoin Dandelion++ reference implementation also only calls it Dandelion so it got confusing
**\<selsta\>** some coins don’t even know if they have Dandelion or Dandelion++ lol
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks selsta
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione doesn't seem to be here, but they posted a call for translators this week: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gf8js7/call_for_translators_new_gui_release_approaching/
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] Call for translators: New GUI release approaching, we need to translate the new strings! (self.Monero) | 65 points (93.0%) | 8 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-05-07 - 15:23:32
**\<sgp\_\>** skipping c since selsta already covered it
**\<sgp\_\>** (unless there are gui-specific things, and if so please interrupt me)
**\<sgp\_\>** actually I think we can skip to f, since the other workgroup reps don't seem to be here. Please comment if you have an update
**\<sgp\_\>** f. Monero Research Lab
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<sarang\>** Working on the CLSAG audit scope and associated materials
**\<sarang\>** as well as additional implementation proof-of-concept code for Triptych and Arcturus
**\<sarang\>** and some updates to in-memory key encryption
**\<sarang\>** Nothing too earth-shattering
**\<sarang\>** Others have been focusing on future updates to transaction structure for better uniformity
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks sarang, anything else?
**\<sarang\>** That does it for me
**\<sgp\_\>** okay
**\<sgp\_\>** 5. Open ideas time
**\<sgp\_\>** does anyone have an idea to share?
**\<intj440\>** currently Monero Means Money has subtitles only for English and Portuguese, perhaps the Localization workgroup could solicit volunteers for this sometime
**\<msvb-mob\>** There is a new project for our DC28 participation if we choose to virtualise.
**\<msvb-mob\>** https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-monero-village-at-defcon-planning/
**\<msvb-mob\>** Defcon 29 in Las Vegas was cancelled yesterday, in case we didn't hear the news.
**\<netrik182[m]\>** I was looking at weblate's documentation and it's possible to use it for subtitles
**\<msvb-mob\>** And replaced by 'Defcon Safemode with Networking' involving Village Discourse servers and whatever we want to uniquely set up.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Yeah idk about connecting remotely to defcon
**\<netrik182[m]\>** Would make really easy to contribute translations there
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Just feels like a baaaad idea
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Guess I could connect through my burner smart fridge
**\<msvb-mob\>** needbrrrrrrr90: Other villages like Skytalks completely cancelled their participation.
**\<sgp\_\>** imo we should expect to participate and see what that looks like
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** I suspect we should socially distance from defcon, for virus purposes
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** But if you want to roll the dice
**\<msvb-mob\>** In this community meeting it's just a sneak preview, but we can discuss in more detail during our first (and last?) DC28 meeting, sometime I'l try to schedule it and post on IRC and Github.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Thanks
**\<sgp\_\>** do we need to remotely connect? I'm out of the loop from these discussion
**\<sgp\_\>** s/discussion/discissions
**\<monerobux\>** sgp\_ meant to say: do we need to remotely connect? I'm out of the loop from these discissions
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Basically my concern is that we will attract people who both have money on their comouter and aren't cautious, and defcon is known for 0days and such
**\<msvb-mob\>** sgp: There will be no Vegas on site installations, so everything is IP remote yes.
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** It feels like an easy target
-xmr-pr- [meta] SarangNoether opened issue #462: Research meeting: 13 May 2020 @ 17:00 UTC
-xmr-pr- \> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/462
**\<msvb-mob\>** hyc already gave some opinions and useful information about Discourse, if you want to scroll to IRC discussion about ten hours ago.
**\<sgp\_\>** needbrrrrrrr90: can we try to mitigate that by not using Defcon's services? Is that a requirement?
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** I'm not sure sgp, we can talk about it in the meeting
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** And I'll get informed so I'm not repeating already said stuff
**\<intj440\>** netrik182: sounds helpful to allow non-coding translators to contribute w/o dealing with github
**\<msvb-mob\>** sgp: I think there are no real requirements, if we don't use the Discourse server it may seem we're not participating. We could always make it a landing page and stick a topic permanent pointing to our real services, like a 302.
**\<sgp\_\>** wait are we talking about Discord or Discourse? These are two totally different things
**\<ajs-mob\>** we could use our own Jitsi server
**\<ajs-mob\>** Defcon Discord is optional
**\<msvb-mob\>** Oops, I'm not sure sgp.
**\<msvb-mob\>** It's even worse than I thought. I wrote 'discourse' but the server they want to use is called 'discord.'
**\<sgp\_\>** That's not even hosted by Defcon. That's hosted by Discord themselves, no?
**\<msvb-mob\>** sgp: Probably yes, and hyc wrote that it's not opensource.
**\<msvb-mob\>** I think needbrrrrrr90 wrote something as well, but strangely positive. Like, it's proprietary but very useful.
**\<sgp\_\>** We should probably expect to use their Discord for chats (or Jitsi), and then a livestream like before for events/talks
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** For what it does, there's nothing like it. It's primarily for the game community, but they've expanded their suite of offerings
**\<shillo\>** discord is great
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Multi way video/voice chat now makes it a serious contender agaisnt jitsi et al
**\<sgp\_\>** Discord is kinda killing it with convenience. The new video conferencing just.... works
**\<msvb-mob\>** So that's why I made the first (and only one so far) user story in project management about 'researching server technology.' To figure out what we want to do.
**\<ArticMine\>** Discord is proprietary thereby a security threat particularly when its use is related to Defcon
**\<msvb-mob\>** ArticMine: Do you prefer some alternative, do you like jitsi?
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Ehhh, open source doesn't necessarily mean not a security risk, because defcon
**\<ArticMine\>** I suggest we stay with jitsi
**\<netrik182[m]\>** intj440: yes, the only thing to note is that if there are synchronizations to be made, that will require some knowledge and an external tool (like Aegisub). But this applies to github contributions as well
**\<sgp\_\>** I think this will largely depend on where attendees are tbh
**\<ArticMine\>** FLOSS at least means a level playing field between the white hats and the black hats
**\<sgp\_\>** we can still use Jitsi + YouTube for the speakers/events, but we may need to have a Discord presence to greet and answer questions, etc
**\<ArticMine\>** Why?
**\<sgp\_\>** marketing reasons. gotta meet people where they are to some extent
**\<ArticMine\>** Fine and then send the to jitsi
**\<ArticMine\>** them
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah we can always do something like that
**\<msvb-mob\>** Let's not forget whatever research rehrar determined about things like Mozilla Hubs, that might be nice to mix in.
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah
**\<sgp\_\>** any final open ideas?
**\<sgp\_\>** I might do a trivia session tomorrow if I'm bored
**\<needbrrrrrrr90\>** Sounds fun
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 23 May at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 30 May at 17:00 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** Conclusion
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.

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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2020-06-06
tags: [dev diaries, crypto]
author: asymptotically / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
---
# Logs
**\<sgp\_\>** 0. Introduction
**\<sgp\_\>** We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
**\<sgp\_\>** Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/471
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
**\<sgp\_\>** 1. Greetings
**\<ErCiccione\>** Hi folks
**\<msvb-mob\>** Hello.
**\<kinghat[m]\>** o/
**\<binaryFate\>** hello!
**\<sgp\_\>** ping needbrrrrrrr90 sarang
**\<sarang\>** Hi
**\<deedledea\>** Hi!
**\<sgp\_\>** hello everyone :)
**\<sgp\_\>** 2. Community highlights
**\<sgp\_\>** See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
**\<sgp\_\>** Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
**\<sgp\_\>** We now have a Twitter! https://twitter.com/xmrcommunity
**\<sgp\_\>** If we have time during open ideas time, please comment on what you want to use it for.
**\<sgp\_\>** Diego spoke about Monero at the Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. Hopefully they eventually distribute a recording.
**\<sgp\_\>** Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
**\<sgp\_\>** 3. CCS updates
**\<sgp\_\>** Funding required:
**\<sgp\_\>** Norwegian translation of webplate, footers, nav. Menu (1.16 / 6 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/Norwegian_translation_core.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (550.06 / 576 XMR) https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/research-post-quantum-monero.html
**\<sgp\_\>** Ideas (to be discussed):
**\<sgp\_\>** Swedish cli wallet (3 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/147
**\<sgp\_\>** dEBRUYNE and ErCiccione[m] commented on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gtjd6g/ccs_proposal_lets_add_support_for_swedish_in_to/
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] [CCS Proposal] Lets add support for swedish in to monero cli wallet (self.Monero) | 21 points (82.0%) | 5 comments | Posted by writesofrust | Created at 2020-05-30 - 18:43:13
**\<sgp\_\>** no comments on this one?
**\<binaryFate\>** I don't see much value either, but don't see a reason not to pass it on to funding required
**\<binaryFate\>** donors can decide
**\<binaryFate\>** 3 XMR is very small, maybe it is a good test run of the CCS system by that person if nothing else
**\<sgp\_\>** is the gui and website already translated?
**\<ErCiccione\>** Not a big fan of that proposal. We don't even know about past experiences as translator and the proposal itself seems quite lazily written
**\<ErCiccione\>** let me check that
**\<sgp\_\>** if they have no past contributions, I think that's a reason to not advance
**\<ErCiccione\>** We don't have the website in swedish. We have the GUI, which is almost fully translated
**\<ErCiccione\>** i'm fine with people not having past experience with monero if they show some credentials
**\<sgp\_\>** did they show any?
**\<ErCiccione\>** To my knowledge, no.
**\<ErCiccione\>** but we didn't ask either
**\<sgp\_\>** I guess the proposal is on hold then until that is resolved
**\<sgp\_\>** final comments on this one?
**\<sgp\_\>** second one:
**\<sgp\_\>** Sarang: research funding for 2020 Q3 (492 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/148
**\<sarang\>** I'll revisit the amount prior to opening (if this is decided)
**\<sgp\_\>** I highly doubt anyone will comment against this one
**\<binaryFate\>** go go go!!!
**\<sgp\_\>** indeed
**\<sarang\>** Happy to take questions here or as CCS comments
**\<ErCiccione\>** I already left a thumb up on the MR
**\<sgp\_\>** 7 thumbs up now
**\<sgp\_\>** I think we can proceed since this obviously has universal support
**\<sarang\>** I'll check on the amount first
**\<sgp\_\>** of course
**\<sarang\>** So please don't merge just yet
**\<binaryFate\>** sarang did you discuss with luigi1111 about the proposed "stable USD amount" buffer?
**\<sarang\>** It was briefly mentioned, but not really in any more detail
**\<binaryFate\>** Let's discuss and finalize decision before you adapt amount
**\<sarang\>** ok
**\<binaryFate\>** (decision might be not to use it, no pressure!)
**\<sgp\_\>** CLSAG Audit with Teserakt and OSTIF (179 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/150
**\<sgp\_\>** Teserakt has already done half of the audit on their own decision
**\<monerobux\>** Test failed
**\<binaryFate\>** lol
**\<sgp\_\>** no comments?
**\<niocbrrrrrr\>** !donate [undisclosed\_amount]
**\<niocbrrrrrr\>** please and thank you
**\<sgp\_\>** haha nice
**\<sgp\_\>** Any other CCS comments before we move on?
**\<sgp\_\>** 4. Workgroup report
**\<sgp\_\>** is selsta here?
**\<selsta\>** yes
**\<sgp\_\>** sweet
**\<sgp\_\>** a. Daemon/CLI/GUI workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** go ahead :)
**\<selsta\>** Will have to think :P
**\<selsta\>** v0.16 was a smooth release and with no major problems.
**\<selsta\>** I think we can soon prepare v0.17 with CLSAG
**\<sgp\_\>** selsta: do you have an ideal release date for 0.17? since it will require a hardfork
**\<ErCiccione\>** Good job btw. People are super happy with the new GUI and CLI
**\<selsta\>** Not yet.
**\<selsta\>** I want to release at least 1 month before the hardfork time.
**\<kinghat[m]\>** ya the gui is sexy af
**\<sgp\_\>** do you want it to happen before this fall?
**\<selsta\>** I would guess hardfork 2 months after the audit is done but that might be too optimistic.
**\<sarang\>** There will need to be Trezor/Ledger support in place from those teams
**\<sarang\>** and they'll probably want a testnet to try it out on
**\<selsta\>** We have to give exchanges and other wallets enough time to update.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Bear in mind that CLSAG also requires changes from wallet providers
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** Thus, we have to allow for more time arguably
**\<selsta\>** yep
**\<selsta\>** We are also thinking about signing the windows and macOS release but that might be a better topic for the dev meeting
**\<selsta\>** code certificate signing\*
**\<ErCiccione\>** yeah. The problem with the antiviruses needs to be at list mitigated somehow. Really bad UX
**\<selsta\>** might no not possible to mitigate, but we will see
**\<kinghat[m]\>** did one of those hw wallets monero integration get promoted to "full" or "proper" vs just being a side thing?
**\<selsta\>** you mean ledger?
**\<kinghat[m]\>** im not sure 🤔
**\<sarang\>** Ledger
**\<sarang\>** I'm in contact with the person now in charge of that
**\<selsta\>** I did not read from the announcement that they will work on Ledger Live.
**\<sarang\>** I do not know any details on that
**\<selsta\>** anyway I’m done with the workgroup update
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks selsta!
**\<selsta\>** oh and one more thing
**\<selsta\>** google might add monero to their open source fuzzer: https://github.com/google/oss-fuzz/pull/3941
**\<sarang\>** IIRC moneromooo has been updating the fuzz tests in the codebase
**\<sgp\_\>** sweet
**\<selsta\>** this will help at find bugs in the monero codebase
**\<selsta\>** finding\*
**\<selsta\>** ok done now
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks!
**\<sgp\_\>** b. Localization workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione any update?
**\<ErCiccione\>** Not much. About 50 people contributed to translate the GUI release
**\<kinghat[m]\>** this is what i read: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gwkmcn/ledger\_monero_app_new_lead_dev/
**\<kinghat[m]\>** > Why? Until now Monero was still maintained as R&D project by myself. It is now moving in the coin integration team and will reach a new state level. That's as a good news.
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] Ledger Monero App: New lead dev! (self.Monero) | 149 points (100.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2020-06-04 - 16:21:05
**\<ErCiccione\>** It's a good number, the highest amount of translators for a release was 60 IIRC, but don't quote me on that
**\<sarang\>** kinghat[m]: I've been recently put in touch with the dev who's now in charge of that
**\<sarang\>** I've reached out to get information on their required/desired timeline for a network upgrade
**\<sarang\>** waiting to hear back
**\<ErCiccione\>** also, Weblate is starting to catch up. People are using it every day and we have about 150 people on the platform
**\<ErCiccione\>** the activity: https://translate.getmonero.org/#activity
**\<ErCiccione\>** beside that, not much to report
**\<kinghat[m]\>** sorry for the interruption ErCiccione.
**\<ErCiccione\>** no problem :)
**\<sgp\_\>** glad to hear so many people helped with 0.16
**\<sgp\_\>** c. Outreach workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** Monero Outreach recently shared their “We Accept Monero” campaign: https://www.monerooutreach.org/we-accept-monero.html
**\<sgp\_\>** d. Website workgroup
**\<sgp\_\>** lots of cool changes here :)
**\<ErCiccione\>** Yeah there is a lot of stuff in progress
**\<ErCiccione\>** I posted this on reddit today: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gxnqmf/lets\_improve_the_monero_faq_page_on_getmonero/
**\<monerobux\>** [REDDIT] Let's improve the Monero FAQ page on GetMonero. What questions/answers should we add? (self.Monero) | 35 points (95.0%) | 7 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-06-06 - 09:17:52
**\<ErCiccione\>** I think we should improve the FAQ adding as many qestions as possible
**\<ErCiccione\>** if anybody has ideas, please post them on reddit or open an issue
**\<sgp\_\>** SE is definitely a good place to start
**\<ErCiccione\>** or write here if you want but there is a higher chance of me forgetting it :P
**\<ErCiccione\>** sgp\_ i used it when i remade the faq, but now i wanted to add questions that people are asking now
**\<selsta\>** I don’t think trying to replace SE with the website FAQ makes sense. (Not sure if that’s the intention)
**\<ErCiccione\>** I don't intend to replace SE at all. I just think that the website should be more a point of reference. Because people are more likely to look for answers there
**\<sgp\_\>** not replacing SE
**\<selsta\>** A lot of people google their question and get redirected to SE / Reddit. I doubt that many people will read to a huge FAQ but maybe that’s just my opinion.
**\<selsta\>** through\*
**\<sgp\_\>** this is mostly for media/journalists imo
**\<midipoet\>** what's the story with #monero-defcon
**\<sgp\_\>** better for them to reference the site than SE
**\<selsta\>** But a FAQ makes sense in general, yes.
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** SE has quite good SEO fwiw
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** They will often appear on top for a search
**\<msvb-mob\>** midipoet: What do you mean what's the story with #monero-defcon?
**\<sgp\_\>** SE is good if someone googles a specific question
**\<sgp\_\>** FAQ is good if someone goes digging
**\<msvb-mob\>** midipoet: I see now, let me try to fix that.
**\<selsta\>** IMO FAQ is more for general questions about Monero, not too technical things.
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah agreed
**\<ErCiccione\>** selsta: yep, that's my point
**\<midipoet\>** msvb-mob: thankyou!
**\<kayront\>** question, there was some talk months ago about ring sizes increasing to epic quantities, is that still on the table?
**\<kayront\>** (hi everyone!)
**\<sgp\_\>** kayront: not with clsags
**\<sgp\_\>** longer term
**\<ErCiccione\>** For who is not aware of that. I'm changing the homepage, you are welcome to review and participate to the dicussion: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/948
**\<ErCiccione\>** oh almost forgot
**\<ErCiccione\>** We are working on implementing the netlify previews on getmonero
**\<kayront\>** sgp\_: years?
**\<ErCiccione\>** Basically every time somebody open a PR, netlify will build it and show a preview. That's useful because people without a building environment can see how a PR will look like once merged
**\<ErCiccione\>** see https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/1016
**\<ErCiccione\>** That's something i look forward to and i hope will help increasing the activity on the monero-site repo
**\<dEBRUYNE\>** kayront: Realistically I think Triptych is 1-1.5 years out
**\<sarang\>** There are still some questions on multisig support due to some different math
**\<msvb-lab\>** midipoet: You (and all of us) can now again access #monero-defcon.
**\<midipoet\>** msvb-lab: thank you :-).
**\<selsta\>** ErCiccione: useful :D
**\<ErCiccione\>** i made a test PR that people can use as example
**\<ErCiccione\>** https://github.com/erciccione/monero-site/pull/17
**\<midipoet\>** msvb-lab: there might still be a permissions issue...as I get an error trying to post a message
**\<binaryFate\>** ErCiccione I'll get to the netlify thing tomorrow
**\<ErCiccione\>** I PRd the edited homepage. You can see netlify's comment with a link
**\<ErCiccione\>** that's the PR built and deployed
**\<ErCiccione\>** thanks binaryfate :)
**\<sarang\>** ErCiccione: any practical risk of an attacker fooling someone into thinking it's the real site?
**\<sarang\>** I suppose such an attacker could just deploy their own clone of the code, and the domain is netlify...
**\<kayront\>** asked this in -dev several mins ago before realizing there's a meeting going on, does anyone know if this would be possible: " another thing: would it technically be possible to have an "account viewkey", rather than a wallet-wide one? use cases would be services that require the viewkey to confirm payments, generate addresses etc, this is a fairly common use case; and for simplicity/backup/sanity reasons it's helpful to only have one
**\<kayront\>** underlying seed"
**\<ErCiccione\>** unlikely IMO
**\<ErCiccione\>** but even if they do think it's the real website, there are no downloads
**\<ErCiccione\>** and the links are hard to mistake. The homepage for example is built here: https://deploy-preview-17--frosty-jones-8df25a.netlify.app
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks ErCiccione
**\<sgp\_\>** anything else on the website?
**\<sgp\_\>** sarang: can you quickly give an update on MRL?
**\<ErCiccione\>** don't think so
**\<sarang\>** Sure
**\<sarang\>** The CLSAG audit process is proceeding nicely
\* midipoet realises there was a meeting
**\<sarang\>** I spent quite a bit of time re-running and correcting some tracing analysis that came out in a preprint
**\<sarang\>** The results are much better than the preprint had suggested
**\<sgp\_\>** that was just a class project afaict
**\<sarang\>** Yes, but it got some attention and was a good excuse to run updated analysis anyway
**\<sgp\_\>** thanks sarang
**\<sgp\_\>** there's one topic ErCiccione wanted to discuss at the meeting
**\<sgp\_\>** ErCiccione asked to reserve some time to make a decision of using “reasonably” in the homepage: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/471#issuecomment-639582413
**\<sgp\_\>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/971
**\<ErCiccione\>** yeah let's get done with that
**\<sgp\_\>** I think it should be removed
**\<sgp\_\>** it doesn't convey the nuances it attempted to convey imo
**\<ErCiccione\>** I liked it, but i see why people prefer to have it removed. If it's controversial, let's just remove it
**\<ErCiccione\>** people wanted to change "slogan" anyway, no?
**\<sgp\_\>** yeah there were other ideas too
**\<kayront\>** fwiw i think it reads a bit like a cop-out
**\<deedledea\>** +1 for removing it
**\<kayront\>** i understand the idea behind it, but for the uninitiated it probably reads more like "it's probably not gonna keep my stuff private"
**\<sarang\>** The idea was that privacy and security always depend on risk and threat models
**\<sgp\_\>** who gets that from "reasonably" though if they don't already get that
**\<sarang\>** understood
**\<binaryFate\>** remove it please, it's only in geek circles that people might get the honest meaning. We're very honest if people dig more, no need to confuse on the homepage
**\<kayront\>** yeah sarang, iirc QubesOS used/uses "reasonably secure" as well, in reality that's what it is because nothing can be 100% safe
**\<kayront\>** but for new people the nuance will be lost i reckon
**\<sgp\_\>** any final comments?
**\<sarang\>** I'm not tied to that specific wording. As long as the presentation is honest and reasonable
**\<sgp\_\>** okay, we can wrap up then. thanks for your patience as we went over
**\<sgp\_\>** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<sgp\_\>** The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 20 June at 17:00 UTC.
**\<sgp\_\>** The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 27 June at 17:00 UTC
**\<sgp\_\>** Conclusion
**\<ErCiccione\>** alright, i'll remove it tomorrow
**\<sgp\_\>** That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.