--- layout: post title: Overview and Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2018-06-07 summary: Discussion of the latest Kovri development updates and the alpha release tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto] author: selsta / anonimal --- # Logs **\<anonimal>** 1. Greetings **\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting **\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status **\<anonimal>** 4. Alpha release discussion **\<anonimal>** 5. Public relations discussion **\<anonimal>** 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A **\<anonimal>** 7. Any additional meeting items **\<anonimal>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time **\<anonimal>** Hi **\<oneiric\_>** Hi **\<rehrar>** Heyo **\<rehrar>** #kovrifam **\<rehrar>** stolen from Verge **\<anonimal>** I don't think fluffypony has been to a kovri meeting since at least 2016. **\<\_Slack> \<sean>** Hey **\<anonimal>** He name-drops kovri/kovri-related in interviews all the time and shows up to monero meetings. **\<anonimal>** Hi sean **\<rehrar>** like the Queen of England **\<rehrar>** shall I ping him? **\<\_Slack> \<sean>** Hey anonimal. **\<anonimal>** rehrar: you already did, during the prep **\<rehrar>** he's not in the room, and I guess he doesn't have any other IRC bridges **\<anonimal>** Anyone else here? Big channel, lots of lurkers **\<anonimal>** NSA bots, how's it going? **\<oneiric\_>** lol +badbot **\<anonimal>** Hi iDunk **\<iDunk>** o/ **\<rottensalty07>** I'm here, but I'm not a three-lettered botnet. **\<anonimal>** Damn **\<anonimal>** They could at least speak up more **\<anonimal>** We know you're there **\<anonimal>** Some poor sap sitting behind a monitor sifting through regexps **\<anonimal>** Oh well **\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting **\<anonimal>** If you look at the old logs, I used to prepare very detailed records for item 2. **\<rottensalty07>** Lol. **\<anonimal>** I then realized that A) most people didn't care B) the people who did care already knew what I was going to say. **\<anonimal>** So, I stopped preparing for item 2 :) **\<anonimal>** Here's a recent item I can easily grab: **\<anonimal>** https://twitter.com/getkovri/status/1004568146139865089 **\<anonimal>** Which links to https://t.co/7fDhUBt75d **\<anonimal>** Oops **\<anonimal>** http://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90300/oneiric-june-august-part-time-kovri-junior-developer **\<rottensalty07>** Those t.co shady links. Shame. **\<anonimal>** The tco link points to the forum link **\<rottensalty07>** I'm reading through. **\<anonimal>** So that needs more input and should be moved to funding. **\<anonimal>** Alex058 responded with thumbs up **\<anonimal>** I'll go ahead and retweet the getkovri tweet **\<oneiric\_>** Much appreciation anonimal and Alex058 :) **\<rottensalty07>** Retweeted by wheel too. **\<anonimal>** No problem **\<rehrar>** I support oneiric\_, but I'm biased since he is bae **\<rottensalty07>** oneiric\_: I'm happy to see others coming out to help rehrar and anonimal labor. We are nothing but a community. **\<rottensalty07>** rehrar: No homo. **\<rehrar>** all the homo **\<oneiric\_>** lol rehrar **\<anonimal>** oneiric\_ is British Aerospace? **\<oneiric\_>** ? **\<anonimal>** "bae" ;) **\<oneiric\_>** lol **\<anonimal>** Anyway, aside from that, lots has happened between now and the previous meeting. Lots of development. **\<anonimal>** Anything else on point 2.? **\<rehrar>** not sure if I should report here **\<rehrar>** or in 3. **\<rehrar>** they kinda bleed together **\<anonimal>** 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status **\<anonimal>** Go **\<rehrar>** I been working **\<rehrar>** end **\<rehrar>** no but really **\<rehrar>** so my last payout was delayed because kovri died down for about a month or two. So rather than try to just do busywork that wouldn't help anyone, I decided to delay my work and payment until we got the band back together so we can make sure we're all working toward a common goal **\<anonimal>** A month or two?! Umm, no. **\<rehrar>** but I was doing some build work with oneiric, particularly documenting **\<anonimal>** When was this? **\<rehrar>** \*a month **\<anonimal>** Two weeks is a month now? **\<rehrar>** intermittent people in #kovri from mid April to near end of May? **\<anonimal>** What does #kovri have to do with your FFS? **\<rehrar>** ummm...I'm just explaining why I felt it would be better to hold up on the work :/ **\<anonimal>** If I can't make it for ~2 weeks, that's when other people are needed most; not the other way around. **\<anonimal>** Well, whatever your rationale, I don't think anyone else cares if you weren't working on your FFS so, you probably won't hear any other complaints. **\<rehrar>** I have been working on my FFS. In fact it should be done today or tomorrow. **\<anonimal>** Sucks for me though because I get the brunt of it. **\<anonimal>** You just said you delayed your work, and now you're telling me you've been working... **\<anonimal>** Which one is it? **\<rehrar>** ......... **\<rehrar>** it hasn't been delayed the entire time anonimal **\<rottensalty07\_>** anonimal: I believe you got twisted there... **\<rottensalty07\_>** He didn't work on the main thing for few days, but was working documenting under the table... **\<rehrar>** I was working on it for a couple weeks, then took a break while things died down, and then resumed recently when things picked back up **\<anonimal>** If your last payout was 2 months ago, and you said you delayed your work for 2 months, that equals 0 work if I understand correctly that 2 - 2 = 0 **\<anonimal>** Ok **\<rehrar>** yes, but as you corrected, it wasn't two months, and my "month or two" comment wasn't correct as you said **\<anonimal>** I can't account for under the table work. **\<rehrar>** excuse me for speaking flippantly **\<rehrar>** I can PR the documentation work that I've done, but you had said that you weren't liking the whole "DO NOT MERGE" culture that had happened last time I did a PR to prove work **\<anonimal>** So what's been done. **\<rehrar>** this is what I have been trying to explain :P **\<anonimal>** DO NOT MERGE equals not complete so why be paid for something that hasn't been completed. **\<anonimal>** WIP is one thing, but you're off the hook after this FFS. **\<anonimal>** So, is it done? **\<anonimal>** You set the deadlines of Q1, not me. I just want to see where we are. **\<rehrar>** Documenation with oneiric\_, which is in progress, sent a PR with the recent multilingual changes that were on the getmonero.og site, lots and lots of logo work, fielding a few dev people that contacted out of interest, serhack collab for Mastering Monero, kovri defcon work **\<rehrar>** documentation is not done, but fairly far along. oneiric\_ can attest that we spent quite some time working through various OS's, as not all the instrutions worked 100% and there was a large amount of trouble shooting **\<rehrar>** \*instructions **\<oneiric\_>** That's true, we worked on Debian builds, and a couple of the build options. **\<anonimal>** Ok **\<rehrar>** the OS specific documentation also requires a custom HTML/CSS scheme for the Get Started page, which I have experimented with and not found a solution for **\<anonimal>** I don't think all of this is needed though. **\<oneiric\_>** I was a bit unsure of a couple flags, and why the build was failing without them. **\<anonimal>** We have a table in the readme **\<anonimal>** What's the goal? **\<rehrar>** one of the things we discussed was the rewrite the kovri docs **\<rehrar>** and to do it in a more user friendly wa **\<rehrar>** \*way **\<rehrar>** I do indeed have a table as well, sitting in my branch of kovri docs **\<rehrar>** I can PR it right this second for proof **\<anonimal>** I ended up having to do the docs myself. https://github.com/monero-project/kovri-docs/pull/48 **\<anonimal>** It's June. This kind of stuff needed to be done Q1. **\<anonimal>** The user-guide could use improving though. **\<anonimal>** Anyway, whatever. What's done is done. **\<rehrar>** the new multilingual scheme also requires different stuff for the way the site is handled **\<rehrar>** PR sent **\<anonimal>** Ok **\<rehrar>** the Kovri site is quite different from the Monero site, in that it relies on the pulled docs, which has pros and cons. Simplifies some things and complicates others. **\<anonimal>** Yes, but this doesn't change that I'm having to do things myself; things you said you would do. **\<anonimal>** Also, what have you done with r/kovri? **\<anonimal>** AFAICT nothing for this FFS. **\<anonimal>** In fact, someone else had to come and moderate because of spam. **\<anonimal>** Have you done any r/kovri work that I'm unaware of? **\<rehrar>** no **\<anonimal>** "/r/Kovri design moderation and upkeep" \<-- https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/89677/rehrar-s-2018-q1-kovri-proposal **\<anonimal>** Ok **\<anonimal>** Anything else for point 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status ? **\<oneiric\_>** We already talked about mine, nothing else from me **\<anonimal>** 4. Alpha release discussion **\<anonimal>** The date is by defcon. **\<anonimal>** I have no clue where pigeons is. **\<anonimal>** I can't develop on BSD nor windows. These meta issue tickets are piling up. **\<anonimal>** The alpha will be a sum result of what the community can handle. **\<anonimal>** s/I can't develop on BSD nor windows/I can't develop on BSD nor windows because of https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/178 and https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/238 **\<rehrar>** I'll ping pigeons right now **\<anonimal>** These shouldn't be issues. This is why we need to move on https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/237 **\<anonimal>** I'm already donating my time. If I wasn't donating that, then I'd be donating my money. **\<rehrar>** hmmm...ok. Do you think it's worthwhile to have us kovri people set up some stuff and maintain them? **\<anonimal>** That's the point of #237, or at least one of the points. **\<anonimal>** We're running out of time, anything else on 4. Alpha release discussion? **\<rehrar>** right, but we can get an action item on that in that we can have someone do it specifically for Kovri. Other workgroups can follow suit as they want. **\<anonimal>** Moving the issue from Monero Project Meta to Monero Project Taiga defeats the purpose of decentralization. **\<anonimal>** But no one is stopping you from doing that. **\<rehrar>** I can set up a Kovri taiga :) **\<rehrar>** and we can have our various Kovri related tasks on there instead of on the getmonero one **\<anonimal>** That won't work, because you're paid by Ric do work for Monero Project. **\<anonimal>** Me or someone else would need to host it. **\<anonimal>** But you can do whatever you want. **\<anonimal>** 10 minutes left, we need to move on. **\<anonimal>** 5. Public relations discussion **\<anonimal>** \_4matter is doing some great work behind the scenes in this area. **\<anonimal>** He couldn't make the meeting but I'm assuming he'll make the next one. **\<anonimal>** I like his ideas/approach. He can speak more when he returns. **\<anonimal>** I advised him that he shouldn't repeat the work that rehrar's done. rehrar did a ton of work in the outreach area and, no fault of his own, it had mixed results. **\<rehrar>** it was an eye opening experience :D **\<anonimal>** I'll add an item to the next meeting regarding public relations. **\<anonimal>** rehrar got to learn that developers are like violinists: **\<anonimal>** they all think they're hot shit or that they are soloist material - but many are not :) **\<anonimal>** s/violinists/young classical violinists/ **\<anonimal>** Anyway, inside classical humor. **\<anonimal>** I watched rehrar's jitsi meeting recently. I think you have a penchant for sales. **\<anonimal>** If you haven't successfully done that, I wouldn't be surprised if you do more of that. **\<rehrar>** sales? Like selling stuff? **\<rehrar>** Selling people on stuff, I guess. **\<anonimal>** Yeah, and PR. **\<rehrar>** *shrug* not really one of my interests, but thanks. **\<rehrar>** :) **\<ErCiccione>** sorry, just finished to read the logs, i'm a bit late to the party. anything you guys want to tell me about translating getkovri? **\<anonimal>** Well it's come in handy. **\<anonimal>** Hi ErCiccione **\<rehrar>** PR sent ErCiccione with the newest updates similar to getmonero.org **\<ErCiccione>** hello :) **\<rehrar>** but since getkovri is set up differently, there is still a substantial amount that is not done via tags **\<rehrar>** handled via kovri-docs **\<ErCiccione>** seen it, tomorrow i will give it a better look and i will change the instructions on taiga if needed **\<rehrar>** I'm updating the README for the site after this meeting **\<ErCiccione>** ok, perfect will read the workflow changes from there **\<anonimal>** Thanks for all the work you've done too, ErCiccione. **\<\_4matter>** anonimal: saw the ping above. On mobile and out of town for a wedding, but I will read through the above. **\<\_4matter>** :) **\<anonimal>** \_4matter: ok, I said that you weren't around and other things. No rush. **\<anonimal>** ErCiccione: anything else? **\<rehrar>** question: should we have a Kovri defcon meeting on the weekday so it's easier to attend? Separate from the overall defcon meeting on Saturdays? **\<ErCiccione>** anonimal: happy to help. no, not from me. Will try to find some more contributors for translations in future. didn't have much luck with that last reddit post **\<anonimal>** Yes, or move the defcon meetings to a later time on Saturdays. **\<rehrar>** I can request it. What time is good? **\<rehrar>** This time? **\<anonimal>** Good luck ErCiccione, you'll find them. **\<ErCiccione>** :) **\<anonimal>** I know where michael is geographically so I understand 15:00 UTC. It's really up to him since he's heading the show. **\<rehrar>** alright, I'll send him a message. **\<anonimal>** But if the community wants me involved, then they'll have to budge just a little. **\<anonimal>** If not, then they'll be leaving me out and a big chunk of the project. **\<anonimal>** Which has been the case. **\<rehrar>** Honestly, Kovri is one of the bigger things that should be at Defcon, at least imo. **\<anonimal>** Even though I repeatedly asked if the community meetings could be moved slightly. **\<anonimal>** For months. And months. **\<anonimal>** But here we are. **\<rehrar>** And I'll fight to make sure you and Kovri are fairly represented there. **\<rehrar>** For community meetings, would an hour or two later be better? **\<rehrar>** my client refuses to respond **\<anonimal>** 17:00 UTC if possible, but that conflicts with the community meetings. **\<anonimal>** sgp has always been pretty staunch about that timeslot. **\<rehrar>** I'll tweak a few nipples and see what I can't get done **\<anonimal>** ouch **\<rehrar>** sometimes you gotta pull out the big guns **\<anonimal>** tweezers **\<anonimal>** If they won't budge, whatever we did worked last time rehrar **\<anonimal>** Was it a Tuesday at 20:00 or around there **\<anonimal>** Yeah, that. **\<rehrar>** after the meeting, we can discuss your meta issues for decentralization. I've got a few ideas (that don't involve me or Core Team). **\<anonimal>** Defcon is a lot of work, that's for sure. **\<rehrar>** or whenever you have the time **\<rehrar>** dude, what makes defcon a bigger headache is that BCOS won't communicate with us :( **\<anonimal>** I don't have any time for anything. I don't even have time to get to "6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A" **\<anonimal>** Ideas are welcome though, of course. **\<rehrar>** ok. I'll put it in the Issue **\<anonimal>** What's the deal with BCOS? **\<rehrar>** they...aren't responding to emails in a timely manner (or at all) **\<\_Slack> \<sean>** background Seinfeld music **\<anonimal>** Or you can paste here if you want and I'll respond **\<anonimal>** lol sean **\<anonimal>** "So what's the deal with BCOS?!" **\<rehrar>** Alright, i will be fairly unavailable starting tomorrow and through the 14th **\<anonimal>** "Can the NOT afford to communicate with Monero?!" **\<rehrar>** fyi for everyone here :) **\<rehrar>** will respond to Wire or Signal if need be, but limited IRC **\<anonimal>** Sorry sean, I can't top your line with anything funnier. **\<\_Slack> \<sean>** BCOS. **\<\_Slack>** Command sent from Slack by sean: **\<\_Slack>** ...that's the joke. **\<anonimal>** Ok. Thanks for the headsup rehrar. **\<rehrar>** it's crazy that nobody's ever heard of them before this **\<anonimal>** lol sean **\<rehrar>** but they got such a prominent spot at Defcon **\<rehrar>** *shrug* oh well **\<anonimal>** rehrar: and will anyone ever hear about them after defcon... **\<rehrar>** evidently they were at last defcon in a village or something **\<rehrar>** disappeared for a y ear **\<rehrar>** then came back for the next one :D **\<\_Slack> \<sean>** They did post that Coinbase is a sponsor, so I'm wondering why they're so damn disorganized. **\<anonimal>** I don't know. **\<rehrar>** anyways **\<oneiric\_>** For 6, I spent most of late-April to May working on multiple subscriptions. Few unit tests left, break it up into smaller chunks for review, and it should be ready. **\<anonimal>** Ok, anything else before we move on? We're in overdrive. **\<anonimal>** Thank you oneiric\_, keeping us on track. **\<anonimal>** 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A **\<anonimal>** Ok **\<anonimal>** Oh, I didn't mention, for this and for the FFS check-in, I'll be submitting the next milestone too. **\<rehrar>** woohoo! **\<rehrar>** you pushing the limits, man **\<anonimal>** lol, I'm glad *someone* is excited, haha **\<anonimal>** Well at close to 180 hours, yes, I'll be submitting. **\<rehrar>** for real, the community doesn't appreciate the stupid amounts of work you put in to this project **\<anonimal>** I'm tired of the free handouts and I also just want this FFS done as I'm sure everyone else wants too. **\<anonimal>** Thanks rehrar. **\<anonimal>** Yes, they don't. **\<anonimal>** And most people also think fluffypony is the CEO and lead developer of Monero. **\<anonimal>** As seen in every recent interview. **\<rehrar>** isn't that the most bizarre thing? **\<anonimal>** Or post somewhere. **\<rehrar>** I see a lot of people post that he started monero too **\<anonimal>** I think he's given up on correcting them. **\<anonimal>** Anyway, so I'm the CEO and lead developer of Monero too. **\<rehrar>** Creator, lead dev, and CEO. Must be nice. :P **\<anonimal>** And I have several lambos and boats. **\<anonimal>** Hey, this fantasy land is pretty sweet. **\<rehrar>** let me in :( **\<oneiric\_>** Any jets flown by unicorns? **\<anonimal>** 7. Any additional meeting items **\<anonimal>** rehrar: it's simple: just say it and it appears. **\<anonimal>** oneiric\_: yes. As many as you want. **\<rehrar>** No other items from me. **\<anonimal>** Nothing from me but I'm on autopilot right now anyway. If I missed something, please yell. **\<anonimal>** Shall we schedule a kovri defcon meeting and if the community channel agrees to be flexible, we just cancel the kovri defcon meeting, rehrar? **\<oneiric\_>** Same, anything else I have can be discussed outside meeting, or wait until the next one. **\<rehrar>** that sounds like a sane thing to do **\<rehrar>** pinging sgp\_[m] now **\<anonimal>** I'll open the github issue. **\<anonimal>** 8. Confirm next meeting date/time **\<rehrar>** Google calendar knows all **\<anonimal>** July 5th? **\<anonimal>** Or sooner? **\<anonimal>** I can't do 21st but can do 14th and 28th. **\<anonimal>** rehrar probably can't do the 14th **\<rehrar>** can't do 14th as stated, but can do 28th **\<rehrar>** ^ mind reader **\<anonimal>** oneiric\_: 28th? **\<oneiric\_>** 28th works for me too **\<sgp\_[m]>** anonimal I must have missed your repeated desire to move the commubity meetings. I didn't realize they conflicted with your schedule, especially since there was a significant period without kovri meetings. I'm open to working out a schedule that works for everyone **\<anonimal>** sgp\_[m]: this goes back to the beginning of the year if not later **\<anonimal>** Whenever you started the community channel. **\<anonimal>** It's all on github and/or irc logs. **\<anonimal>** I just gave up complaining. **\<anonimal>** rehrar: oneiric\_ I'll open a new issue for the next kovri meeting **\<rehrar>** ok, great **\<anonimal>** I do look forward to resolving the Meeting Solutions issue though. **\<oneiric\_>** right on **\<anonimal>** One simple solution is a meeting bot which uploads logs to a website automatically. **\<anonimal>** This is old-school, done-to-death solution and works well. **\<anonimal>** And when you want to know the next meeting: !meeting **\<rehrar>** that's pretty neat **\<anonimal>** supybot did/does this, as did others **\<anonimal>** I have no idea who's doing what anymore **\<anonimal>** I haven't been to a Tor meeting in ages but they had their bot the last I saw. **\<anonimal>** Anyway, simple solution; but doesn't satisfy the modern age very well afaict **\<rehrar>** ICO a solution **\<anonimal>** That's always the solution **\<rehrar>** it's never not the solution **\<anonimal>** "Honey can you grab me milk from the store?" "Sure, startup an ICO." **\<anonimal>** Alright, meeting done? **\<rehrar>** Ye **\<rehrar>** bai everyone **\<rehrar>** kisses for all **\<anonimal>** Thanks everyone