Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-02-19
0MQ, 10.2 release, and background mining
dev diaries
core
crypto
0mq
dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
Logs
<fluffypony> 1. Greetings <fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting <fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A <fluffypony> 4. Any additional meeting items <fluffypony> 5. Confirm next meeting date/time <hyc> hola <fluffypony> so greetings <fluffypony> hi! <ArticMine> hi <tewinget> (here) <vtnerd> also present <moneromooo> hi <tewinget> I'll be sorta afk for the next 5ish minutes, but I'm around. <fluffypony> ok <fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting <fluffypony> so <fluffypony> second meeting of the year <fluffypony> and we've been pushing ahead solidly <fluffypony> we've had a bunch of PRs by newcomers <jollymort> once you go solid state you never go back <fluffypony> including tpltnt, and IPGlider has also pushed a few PRs <fluffypony> we switched to EasyLogging++, which is a pretty big change <fluffypony> and MoroccanMalinois made Android builds happen <fluffypony> tdprime also pushed their first PR <fluffypony> and then the usual rash of PRs from moneromooo, vtnerd, hyc, NanoAkron, and Jaquee <fluffypony> (I've probably missed someone) <pigeons> reveler with the background mining <hyc> revler <fluffypony> yes thanks pigeons <fluffypony> oh and pigeons had a PR too <jollymort> kenshi84 disposable addresses <fluffypony> and kenshi84 <fluffypony> ok - anything else major I missed that happened in the last two weeks before we move on to 3? <moneromooo> All the new one time address stuff from knaccc, randomrun, kenshi, jollymort. <knaccc> yes subaddresses are back! <moneromooo> And luigi. <fluffypony> moneromooo: I was going to get to that in 3 <hyc> ok, sounds like we move on to 3 <fluffypony> since it's in the MRL repo <fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A <jollymort> I wasn't following that discussion, focused on study on fees atm <fluffypony> ok so there have been a few long-form discussions going on in various issues <jollymort> also the one for ring size <fluffypony> yeah the ring size one is one I wanted to bring up <fluffypony> I think the discussion has mostly been positive, nobody's gotten crazy out-of-hand or anything <fluffypony> it is a complex topic <fluffypony> and I think that we have enough time to figure out a good route forward <fluffypony> does anyone have an objection to it continuing in the GitHub issue? <hyc> seems like all the context is there <hyc> so it should continue there <jollymort> I feel like it's more suitable for an issue under MRL, any thoughts of moving it there (if possible)? <jwinterm> I haven't been following the issue too closely, but is there still some sentiment building around fixing ring size for all txs? <fluffypony> jollymort: I think the GH issue is fine, it can kinda be anywhere, but if we're going to turn that into a publication that explores the various options and reasons for recommendations then it would develop as PRs to the research-lab repo * jwinterm goes to github <jollymort> I meant, keep it as a GH issue, but under another repo so it doesn't get buried under all code/bug related issues <jwinterm> as someone not following the issue, it does kind of get lost in the noise with 164 open issues <jwinterm> #1673? <fluffypony> yeah it would be nice if GH let you subscribe to just a single issue <fluffypony> I'm not opposed to moving it to the research-lab repo <fluffypony> how would we do that tho <hyc> no idea <pero> someone creates a synopsis of where the discussion is at currently in the new ticket and links back to older ticket <hyc> yeah, new text <hyc> with @mentions of original participants <fluffypony> ok I'll suggest it in the thread <fluffypony> then on the topic of discussion <fluffypony> I'd like to encourage us to also take some Q&A / discussion items to StackExchange where we can <fluffypony> and to redirect people who open issues to just ask a question to StackExchange <hyc> hm, I would expect that SE is for "settled" questions <fluffypony> SE is a great place for canonical information that is updated over years <jollymort> I'd just like to add that SE is not really a format for discussions, more for things with an actual answer existing <fluffypony> hyc: nope, anyone can edit an accepted answer with new information <jollymort> like hyc said <jollymort> there's SE chat, though - which nobody uses <fluffypony> jollymort: some of the questions on GitHub issues are perfect for SE <jollymort> sure <fluffypony>https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/1751 as an example <hyc> monero clone? <fluffypony> hyc: probably, I thought that too <fluffypony> but that's a good question for SE <fluffypony> which also has a larger group of answer-ers than the GH repo <taushet> it is already answered though, sort of http://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/2886/how-can-i-create-a-new-monero-genesis-block <fluffypony> taushet: yes but SE has tools to close as a duplicate and redirect them to the answer <fluffypony> and moderators can do that without us needing to <taushet> fluffypony - agreed. also the 'issue' was not so much an issue with the code as much as it was a question but a user/tinkerer who could not get something to work <taushet> anyway <fluffypony> yeah exactly <Slack> <nanoakron> What if someone went through and opened parallel SE questions for all those types of question, redirected the original asker, then we shut the issue? <hyc> sounds good <fluffypony> @NanoAkron yes that's exactly my recommendation <Slack> <nanoakron> Ok I might see what I can do if I get any free time tonight <fluffypony> then you even get SE karma or points or rep or whatever it's called <Slack> <nanoakron> Woo! <fluffypony> gamification ftw! <fluffypony> ok anything else under Q&A ? <hyc> specific tickets? <hyc> like 0MQ PR? <fluffypony> yep I believe tewinget said he had to check if it was working with RingCT <fluffypony> tewinget: ^^ <Slack> <nanoakron> Any thoughts about 0.10.2? <fluffypony> @NanoAkron yes <fluffypony> we've been discussing it <fluffypony> because it will coincide with beta 2 of the GUI <Slack> <nanoakron> Oh nice <fluffypony> as we're marrying daemon / GUI versions <Slack> <nanoakron> Makes good sense. Will #1746 be addressed too? <jollymort> do you intend to code in stuff for the next HF in 0.10.2? <Slack> <nanoakron> I.e. Auto starting daemon <fluffypony> there are a few things that need to be done in the daemon / GUI before the next release <tewinget> sry <fluffypony> jollymort: no <fluffypony> we only have to finalise that by like July <tewinget> just got my second monitor back from a friend, was setting it up real quick. <jollymort> ok, thanks <fluffypony> @NanoAkron I don't see why we can't make sure 1746 is sorted, Jaquee any thoughts ? <tewinget> so Snipa was kind enough to chuck a battery of tests at my zmq branch, which is great. It seems there are a couple things I need to look at, which is expected, but his tests seem rather comprehensive, so once those are passing it should be good to go. <moneromooo> Does this keep a backward compat layr for the current JSON API ? <tewinget> moneromooo: currently it neither replaces nor modifies any current RPCs <Slack> <nanoakron> Esp since the number of rpc commands has increased <fluffypony> moneromooo: long term yes - the current JSON API will be in its own binary, like monero-rpc-server, and that will use 0MQ to communicate with the daemon <tewinget> but also short-term yes because I haven't done anything to the existing RPCs <Slack> <nanoakron> I heard it would be passing plaintext commands/JSON and not binary. Or am I mistaken? <tewinget> nanoakron: that is correct, everything is marshalled via json <tewinget> this is so that higher-level languages have no problem using the RPC <pigeons> or jaxx :P <tewinget> as the (de)serialization takes no time at all compared to the computations/fetching <tewinget> pigeons: hope springs eternal <hyc> this is for wallet-style client RPCs only then <Slack> <nanoakron> Doesn't that mean that there are now two sets of commands to maintain in sync - JSON-RPC (won't be deprecated) and JSON-over-ZMQ? <fluffypony> JSON-RPC will be deprecated for the daemon <fluffypony> we won't add new RPC commands to it <fluffypony> JSON RPC for the wallet will continue to evolve and exist <fluffypony> because web apps rely on it <fluffypony> communication with the daemon will be relegated to 0MQ only <moneromooo> !bookie no-json-rpc-added-ever-again yes no <Slack> <nanoakron> But in JSON format <moneromooo> aw... <fluffypony> (eventually) <fluffypony> @NanoAkron yes <fluffypony> so existing apps that interact with the daemon, eg. pool software, can continue by adding a 0MQ library <fluffypony> and modifying any calls that have changed <tewinget> (which won't be many, there were just a few that seemed silly in some ways, and changed accordingly, but none of that is set in stone) <fluffypony> anything else? <fluffypony> or I guess we can include that in the next item on the agenda <fluffypony> 4. Any additional meeting items <Slack> <nanoakron> Neigh <fluffypony> lol <fluffypony> we should use HAY and NEIGH instead of ACK and NACK <Slack> <nanoakron> Lol <tewinget> I'll keep updating over the next couple days, fwiw. Gotta get with Snipa to see if he can make a couple of modifications to the tests for me to make issues track-down-able, but he's afk until tomorrow. <moneromooo> Hmm, range sig reduction... multisig... fee formula change... <Slack> <nanoakron> Yes <pigeons> Snipa: are these tests in your github? <fluffypony> oh I have an item for brief discussion <jollymort> it's not just the fee, penalty needs tweaking <fluffypony> as everyone knows, the dynamic block adjuster isn't adjusting very well since the txs became larger <pero> snipa is afk until tmrw iirc <jollymort> either by increasing the min. blocksize, or having a transition formula <fluffypony> does everyone think we should leave it as-is until September, with the occasional backlog <fluffypony> or should we have some intermediary hard fork ? <ArticMine> We may need one <hyc> If we have a fix now, would be nice to deplot it sooner <hyc> deploy <Slack> <nanoakron> But it has to be smart enough to account for potential future changes in range proof and therefore Tx size <jollymort> it accounts :) <pero> september is a long time away <Slack> <nanoakron> As well as ring size. Txes will become much more standardised in size and non-parametrically distributed <fluffypony> ok I think that's reasonable consensus, as soon as we have something workable we'll put it out to the community as a hard fork and see how they feel <Slack> <nanoakron> So medians etc may not make statistical sense <DaveyJones> you could HF at around the time when originally the ringct hf was supposed to happen <ArticMine> nanoakron We are looking at a fall in tx size? <Slack> <nanoakron> Hopefully. Size would fall will range proof improvements, but distribution of sizes would flatten with ring size standardisation. Parametric statistics would no longer apply. <fluffypony> DaveyJones: that's in March, too soon for a planned fork <Slack> <nanoakron> So adjusting based on moving medians would be meaningless. We'd need to deploy alternate statistical tests. <moneromooo> Can you explain that ? <fluffypony> ok <fluffypony> anything else before we close the meeting ? <fluffypony> (we can discuss specifics after the meeting) <Slack> <nanoakron> Even now with a mix of rct and non-rct transactions the median is meaningless because the size distribution is non parametric <jollymort> it's some typical size which is most important, currently at 13kB <hyc> calculate two separate medians. one for rct and one for non-rct. <jollymort> doesn't matter if it's +/- 1kB <Slack> <nanoakron> It's instead bimodal <hyc> sounds like we're done with the meeting side of things then <jollymort> I mean, if you roll out some change to TX format, you already know the next typical size it will cause <fluffypony> last item is the next meeting time <jollymort> and you will need to HF anyway, so all you'd need to do is adjust one parameter for the dynamic blocksize/fee <fluffypony> 2 weeks from now <fluffypony> March 5th <hyc> cool <fluffypony> I will be on a plane to London, but should have wifi and should be able to attend the meeting <fluffypony> thanks guys