Community highlights, Forum Funding System updates, RFC-HWALLET-1, Localization workgroup, Bulletproof audit discussion, MoneroV discussion, and miscellaneous
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el00ruobuob / SamsungGalaxyPlayer
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<sgp_> 0. Introduction <sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Meeting! <sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/186 <sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support. <sgp_> 1. Greetings <serhack> Hello! <erciccione_[m]> Hi <msvb-loc> Hello <sgp_> 2. Community highlights <sgp_> XMR.RU has translated many important articles into Russian: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/81owe8/xmrrureport_february/ <monerobux> [REDDIT] XMR.RU-report (February) (self.Monero) | 8 points (91.0%) | 4 comments | Posted by TheFuzzStone | Created at 2018-03-03 - 09:06:46 <sgp_> The Ledger team posted their latest update a little over a week ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zez0g/ledger_hardware_wallet_monero_integration_some/ <monerobux> [REDDIT] Ledger Hardware Wallet - Monero integration : some news #7 (self.Monero) | 368 points (96.0%) | 56 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:45:50 <sgp_> There is an important Core Team announcement. binaryFate will replace tacotime as a Core Team member: https://getmonero.org/2018/03/01/core-team-announcement.html <sgp_> Here is a discussion regarding the bulletproof audit request: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit <sgp_> The date of the hardfork is still not set. There will developer meetings every Sunday until the hardfork, including tomorrow. <sgp_> Does anyone else have any updates I missed? <sgp_> (other than FFS ones of course) <rehrar> you didn't think I'd miss this meeting <serhack> sgp_ : https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7zet99/serhack_updates/ <monerobux> [REDDIT] SerHack updates (self.Monero) | 85 points (99.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by serhack | Created at 2018-02-22 - 13:19:02 <sgp_> How's Mastering Monero coming along serhack? <serhack> The cover : https://i.imgur.com/woJmssA.jpg I think I must mark the help from the community members <serhack> Anyway I'm going very good at writing, some users (cryptochangements, 4matter, sarang .. ) helped me with solid feedbacks <serhack> At the moment, there is a little draft: https://masteringmonero.com/book/monero.pdf :) It's not finished of course <sgp_> That's great to hear! Are you still pushing the latest updates to Taiga? <serhack> I am going to abandon the Taiga Wiki because I think it's better to have a github repo , anyway some contents will remain to Taiga :) <serhack> I am doing all best in order to have both Taiga and Github <sgp_> Just skimmed it (EXTREMELY quickly of course) and it's looking awesome! A lot has changed since the last time I checked <msvb-loc> The book looks very good, well organized and comprehensive. <sgp_> It looks like a great tool people can use to learn more about Monero. Great job! <serhack> yes, I think it's about 60% . I would like to mark I don't want to take all credits. <serhack> This community is awesome because we have awesome users! <serhack> Thank you guys! <sgp_> :) <sgp_> Anyone else have any news? <erciccione_[m]> thanks for this serhack <rehrar> Yeah, I do. <sgp_> Go ahead rehrar <rehrar> For those who don't know, I've been working on a thingy to teach the community about open source, with the goal being that the open source vision really sets the stage for the Monero vision <rehrar> and it's hard to 'get' one without understanding the other <rehrar> The past week or so I've directed anyone who would listen to this pad: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/thegoodxmrpad <rehrar> where they can share their favorite open source projects <rehrar> A good list has been compiled so far, although it's only scratched the surface. <rehrar> I'm ready to do a launch on the initiative, and will be making a post today. <sgp_> Great! I look forward to it <rehrar> I'll probably be holding a livestreamed mini-conference before the weekend is over for anyone who wants to come <rehrar> just talk about open source and chill <sgp_> We mentioned earlier when you first introduced this initiative that it's important for people to understand the merits of open-source <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> I'd be sure to watch it ;) <sgp_> All right, post it in r/MoneroCommunity and I'll hop on <rehrar> that's it for me <sgp_> All right, time to move to FFS updates! If anyone has other items, we can get to them later <sgp_> 3. FFS updates <sgp_> There are several Forum Funding System updates. <sgp_> a. RFC-HWALLET-1 project progress <sgp_> @msvb-loc <msvb-loc> The latest prototype 'Prime Platine' design is a few hours from being finished. <msvb-loc> A board rendition is complete: <msvb-loc> taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-rfc-hwallet-1-implementation/ <msvb-loc> It will go to press in a couple days and I hope to have PCBs in a week, then assemble them. <msvb-loc> Last week I visited the Embedded World (largest embedded hardware conference in the world) and spoke to manufacturers and IC chip vendors all day. <msvb-loc> The most important thing (since we otherwise have all bases covered) is to get a stable and high quality display (OLED) supplier, so that's what I was working on. <msvb-loc> Are there any questions about the state of Monero hardware? I have no more comments. <sgp_> How hard do you think it will be to get an OLED supplier? <rehrar> You guys decided on a secure element? <msvb-loc> sgp_: Not too hard to get a supplier, it might mean we need to buy quantities or plan way ahead (since they can only deliver with 6 weeks lead time.) <msvb-loc> rehrar: We're still intent on trying for Microchip CEC1702 secure MCU, and if that fails a Nordic nRF52840. <msvb-loc> We will have Atmel secure elements on top of those things regardless. <msvb-loc> Last night I met with WolfSSL and a local hardware engineer. They are partnering with Infineon on their secure elements, but it's not a good deal. Very closed, secretive, and they don't like small (OSH) groups like ours. <msvb-loc> They are doing TPM. <msvb-loc> rehrar: What do you think, any suggestions or opinions about this? <rehrar> I don't have the expertise to have an opinion, but I remember it's been a point of great discussion on previous hardware meetings. <rehrar> So I thought I'd ask. <msvb-loc> I'm really shorting the story of course. I met with Samsung as well, because they now have low powered IoT modules with TPN and crypto inside, quite cheap. But that would divert our resources too much, because it's a radically different architecture. <rehrar> There's nothing to say that the first Kastelo schematic released needs to be the last ;) <msvb-loc> Ha, yes the schematic is here: <msvb-loc>857dcae151/breakneck-sch.png <msvb-loc> sgp_: Thanks. <sgp_> Thanks msvb-loc. Always interesting to see what's going on on the hardware side of things. <sgp_> b. Localization workgroup Q&A <sgp_> @erciccione_[m] <sgp_> I've noticed that you have been very busy lately :) <erciccione_[m]> that's me :) <erciccione_[m]> yes a lot of new contributors, and that's extremely good <erciccione_[m]> also, people started using Taiga for coordination within communities of translators and i'm very happy about that <erciccione_[m]> i've no particular updates, except for the fact that my FFS proposal will expire on the 7th <erciccione_[m]> i'm already writing another one hoping in the support of the community. it will be out tomorrow :) <sgp_> Sweet, you already answered my question <erciccione_[m]> anybody has questions? <rehrar> When Italian site? :D <rehrar> looking forward to a complete language <erciccione_[m]> in the new FFS there will also be a resume of what have been achived durign this 3 months <sgp_> Thanks erciccione. I look forward to reading it <erciccione_[m]> rehrar: i hope soon, the PR is there and it's ready to be merged, but i've been doing a lot of support this week i couldn't dedicate much time to it <rehrar> cool <sgp_> Does anyone else have a FFS update? <rehrar> I do <erciccione_[m]> i hope i can push some more pages next week <rehrar> I've got an active FFS with Kovri that's ongoing. <rehrar> Unfortunately, on a personal level, February was a difficult and stressful time for me, and I completed about 15 out of 40 hours <rehrar> so obviously I will not accept any payment, and will instead accept for March since things have quieted down for me <rehrar> just an update for the community <sgp_> Thanks for the update <rehrar> so yeah, Jan, Feb and March will simply become Jan, March, April <sgp_> cool, makes sense <sgp_> 4. Bulletproof audit discussion <sgp_> Let’s spend a little time discussing the bulletproof code audit proposal. As mentioned earlier, the proposal is here: https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/89993/bulletproofs-audit <sgp_> MRL’s overview and suggestions are here: https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/blob/master/audits/BP/README.pdf <serhack> yea :) rehrar <sgp_> Does anyone have any feedback that sarang and surae can use as they prepare the FFS request to be moved to Funding Required? <rehrar> does suraeNoether or sarang have anything to say regarding this? :D <sgp_> They're probably doing more important things <sgp_> They just had another research paper dropped on their desk <msvb-loc> What does SoW stand for, Securing of Work?
xwerter6 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds). <sgp_> msvb-loc, where do you see SoW? <rehrar> Scope of Work, I believe <msvb-loc> sgp_: SoW is the prefix to many of the bids on: <msvb-loc>https://github.com/b-g-goodell/research-lab/tree/master/audits/BP/ <sgp_> ah, I see now. see rehrar's answer <sgp_> Anyway, I'm happy that the review of bulletproofs should be happening soon <sgp_> If there are no further comments, I'll move on <Randolf> Hmm, SoW means Scope of Work and not Stake of Work? Hmm. <Randolf> I guess the computer industry is a bit of a victim of acronym overuse sometimes. :) <sgp_> 5. MoneroV discussion <sgp_> The community needs to stay vigilant for the upcoming MoneroV fork, which poses a threat on Monero. I have seen an increasing number of news articles that reference this fork without referencing any of the possible harms. I have also seen more people think that simply using a temporary wallet removes all the risk. <sgp_> Let’s spend some time recommending ways the community can address chain splits. How can we handle the social, community aspect of it? <sgp_> ie: how can we effectively get the message across, even to those with no idea how Monero works? <Randolf> Is MoneroV specifically intended to cause harm to Monero? (Sort of like how Roger Ver created the BCash fork of Bitcoin and seems to be trying to destroy Bitcoin?) <ArticMine> We will need to provide the users with options and the long term effects <sgp_> @Randolf it is most likely just someone trying to get rich quick, but who knows? <Randolf> sgp_: As seems to be the case with many forks. <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> Your video on it I think helped a lot... but most people are too lazy to watch a 20 minute video smh <Randolf> Is this the first time that Monero has been forked? <ArticMine> I do not think MoneroV was deliberately designed to hurt Monero <Randolf> That's good, at least. <ArticMine> It is the first time we have an "air drop" <serhack> If sgp agreed with me , I could try to reach some users by writing a solid article in my blog. <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> No, it's just the first time people are trying to participate in a scammy airdrop <sgp_> serhack sure, the more exposure the better <erciccione_[m]> guys i have to go. Will catch you tomorrow <serhack> bye erciccione_[m] <Randolf> So, referring to it as "yet another fork" could be helpful. <Randolf> That way it keeps Monero in the "driver's seat" so-to-speak. <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> Perhaps we could put something about it in the daily discussion thread on reddit? Yesterday I spent way too much time explaining to people that it's a scam and bad for their own privacy <sgp_> I recommend writing a comprehensive guide on /r/xmrtrader that is stickied. But I would still like some feedback regarding what to include to best get the message across to those who think this is just another opportunity to make money <ArticMine> Yes but will that be enough? I mean XMR at 100,000 USD and scammy XMV at 0.5% market cap or 50 USD x10? <ArticMine> That would put MoneroV at a larger market cap than Monero today <ArticMine> This is the kind of long term risk that I have to be concerned about <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> I wanna know who is actually going to be buying these coins tho... literally everyone I have spoken to about it just wants to dump them <sgp_> I think over 95% of people see this as an opportunity to dump <msvb-loc> sgp_: Dump what? <ArticMine> So I am in the camp of safely splitting of the XMV by using the same mixing on both chains <sgp_> The XMV <sgp_> In regards to ArticMine's comments, I have some news <sgp_> Moneromooo and stoffu have been hard at work on a tool that could be used to mitigate the impact of hardforks. You can see my comment on the issue, where it provides three key features: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/3322 <Randolf> As an end-user, if it's a hard-fork then I naturally see that as a benefit to me because it means that my holdings increase. The question becomes, do I keep my hard forked holdings, or do I sell them (e.g., for Monero or something else)? <sgp_> Before you get overly excited that someone has created a tool, keep in mind this tool only works if many people use it. If only about 20% of people claiming their MoneroV use this sort of tool, then about 42% of those who use the tool will still have their transactions revealed immediately after the fork. This is still better than 100% of transactions. Furthermore, using a tool when some number of transactions exist after the fork will have significant benefits. <ArticMine> Yes I am very much aware of their work. It provides some very critical tools <ArticMine> To do what I am suggesting <Randolf> My perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on. <Randolf> s/My/From my/ <monerobux> Randolf meant to say: From my perspective, as an end-user, is that Monero is the de facto base or fallback that I can always depend on. <sgp_> The problem is that, with ringsize 5, we need to get over 2/3 of MoneroV claimers to use a tool like this, at least initially <ArticMine> Ringsize will likely be a topic ant the dev meeting <ArticMine> at <sgp_> For those using the tool to feel reasonably comfortable <sgp_> Yeah, I'm taking about MoneroV though <ArticMine> But yes increasing ringsize is part of the mitigation <sgp_> We can have forks in the future that advertise themsevles as "MoneroLight" with mandatory 0-mixin transactions <sgp_> rendering tools like these useless <sgp_> So yes, the best thing Monero can do (tool or not) is to increase its own ringsize. I advocated at the last meeting for 7 <ArticMine> Actually such a 0 mixin fork does not pose a threat to the exixting chain <ArticMine> Since ti does not compromise prior outputs <ArticMine> it <sgp_> ArticMine yes, because it reuses the same key image on both <sgp_> thus the input is still compromised <dEBRUYNE> A 0 mixin fork would even be worse <dEBRUYNE> Because there aren't any mitigations you can use such as using the same ring <sgp_> it's as if you sent a 0-mixin transaction in Monero directly <ArticMine> but only affects those who use the fork <dEBRUYNE> True <dEBRUYNE> Uh no <dEBRUYNE> wait <dEBRUYNE> Not if your output is used as decoy <sgp_> Well, the inputs still impact the Moenro blockchain <sgp_> yes debruyne <sgp_> I can walk you through it later ArticMine if you want <sgp_> For the sake of this meeting though, I just want to make people aware that this tool now exists, and that we can consider options to convince people to use something like this <ArticMine> Yes I see because they are exposed as real <ArticMine> or spent to be correct. So they cannot be used in the future <ArticMine> as decoys <dEBRUYNE> It would reduce the ring size with 1 <dEBRUYNE> If they are used as decoy, because they are provably spent <sgp_> If anyone would like to help me create posts telling uninformed people about MoneroV and what to do, I would really love your help. Send me a PM and we can get a workgroup together. Since this is a social problem, I'd rather not try and handle it myself <sgp_> We don't really have much time left for open ideas time, but is there anythign else people want to add quickly? <ArticMine> Yes that is the issue. But for post fork txs one has to use only post fork mixins as a defense to such a 0 mixin air drop <sgp_> ArticMine yes, that is one of the protections included in the tool <sgp_> Which means the negative impact wears off very quickly fortunately <msvb-loc> Anyone have an idea of a stopgap service to run a website on kastelo.org or getkastelo.org? <sgp_> Good question msvb-loc that I wish I had the answer to <msvb-loc> Is there something like Hotmail for websites, that allows an idiot to create a single page site in 5 minutes? <rehrar> what's stopgap? <msvb-loc> rehrar: Until we can get a real website in 1-2 months. <rehrar> msvb-loc, you don't need an idiot to create a web page in 5 minutes <rehrar> I'm a web developer <rehrar> .............remember? <msvb-loc> rehrar: Yes, and you are already doing twenty things. <msvb-loc> I know that. <rehrar> well make it 21 <sgp_> github bootstrap template? <msvb-loc> rehrar: Then the problem is solved, thank you very very very much. <rehrar> I'll see if I can't get you a single page as a temp within the week <rehrar> make a Taiga thing with all the info you want to be on it <msvb-loc> rehrar: Okay, I'll do that. <sgp_> Any other last-minute thoughts? Now's your last chance <sgp_> 7. Confirm next meeting date/time <rehrar> Happy Valentine's Day! <sgp_> The next community meeting will be two weeks from today on 17 March. The Coffee Chat will be next Saturday on 10 March. <sgp_> 8. Conclusion <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> No open ideas? <sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on /r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, and know that change starts with YOU. <rehrar> meeting 'officially' over <rehrar> but 'unofficial' open ideas time starts now <sgp_> @cryptochangements we ran out of time, but I'm happy to still discuss them here <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> Ok cool <xmrmatterbridge> <cryptochangements> Someone mentioned on reddit the other day doing an AMA on r/IAmA to answer questions that people who might not really know that much about cryptocurrency might have. It could also be a chance to promote why we need financial privacy. Good idea? Bad idea? <sgp_> Good idea imo <sgp_> But we need to convince those at AMA why <phx[m]> I don't feel like Reddit is the right platform tbh <sgp_> phx[m] I still think it would be more helpful than harmful <sgp_> The interesting part will be who they would accept. They typically need to have some formal position afaik <defterade> I don't see an AMA producing high quality questions. <defterade> I think it will be met with a lot of uninformed skepticism and misinformation. <defterade> I can already see the highest upvoted comment being an essay moaning about energy consumption. <defterade> Followed by an attempt to explain the merits of PoW, which the average /r/IAMA vistor will not understand anyway. <sgp_> I still think it's good to answer these questions