Overview and Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2018-06-07
Discussion of the latest Kovri development updates and the alpha release
dev diaries
i2p
crypto
selsta / anonimal
Logs
<anonimal> 1. Greetings <anonimal> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting <anonimal> 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status <anonimal> 4. Alpha release discussion <anonimal> 5. Public relations discussion <anonimal> 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A <anonimal> 7. Any additional meeting items <anonimal> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time <anonimal> Hi <oneiric_> Hi <rehrar> Heyo <rehrar> #kovrifam <rehrar> stolen from Verge <anonimal> I don't think fluffypony has been to a kovri meeting since at least 2016. <_Slack> <sean> Hey <anonimal> He name-drops kovri/kovri-related in interviews all the time and shows up to monero meetings. <anonimal> Hi sean <rehrar> like the Queen of England <rehrar> shall I ping him? <_Slack> <sean> Hey anonimal. <anonimal> rehrar: you already did, during the prep <rehrar> he's not in the room, and I guess he doesn't have any other IRC bridges <anonimal> Anyone else here? Big channel, lots of lurkers <anonimal> NSA bots, how's it going? <oneiric_> lol +badbot <anonimal> Hi iDunk <iDunk> o/ <rottensalty07> I'm here, but I'm not a three-lettered botnet. <anonimal> Damn <anonimal> They could at least speak up more <anonimal> We know you're there <anonimal> Some poor sap sitting behind a monitor sifting through regexps <anonimal> Oh well <anonimal> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting <anonimal> If you look at the old logs, I used to prepare very detailed records for item 2. <rottensalty07> Lol. <anonimal> I then realized that A) most people didn't care B) the people who did care already knew what I was going to say. <anonimal> So, I stopped preparing for item 2 :) <anonimal> Here's a recent item I can easily grab: <anonimal>https://twitter.com/getkovri/status/1004568146139865089 <anonimal> Which links to https://t.co/7fDhUBt75d <anonimal> Oops <anonimal>http://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/90300/oneiric-june-august-part-time-kovri-junior-developer <rottensalty07> Those t.co shady links. Shame. <anonimal> The tco link points to the forum link <rottensalty07> I'm reading through. <anonimal> So that needs more input and should be moved to funding. <anonimal> Alex058 responded with thumbs up <anonimal> I'll go ahead and retweet the getkovri tweet <oneiric_> Much appreciation anonimal and Alex058 :) <rottensalty07> Retweeted by wheel too. <anonimal> No problem <rehrar> I support oneiric_, but I'm biased since he is bae <rottensalty07> oneiric_: I'm happy to see others coming out to help rehrar and anonimal labor. We are nothing but a community. <rottensalty07> rehrar: No homo. <rehrar> all the homo <oneiric_> lol rehrar <anonimal> oneiric_ is British Aerospace? <oneiric_> ? <anonimal> "bae" ;) <oneiric_> lol <anonimal> Anyway, aside from that, lots has happened between now and the previous meeting. Lots of development. <anonimal> Anything else on point 2.? <rehrar> not sure if I should report here <rehrar> or in 3. <rehrar> they kinda bleed together <anonimal> 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status <anonimal> Go <rehrar> I been working <rehrar> end <rehrar> no but really <rehrar> so my last payout was delayed because kovri died down for about a month or two. So rather than try to just do busywork that wouldn't help anyone, I decided to delay my work and payment until we got the band back together so we can make sure we're all working toward a common goal <anonimal> A month or two?! Umm, no. <rehrar> but I was doing some build work with oneiric, particularly documenting <anonimal> When was this? <rehrar> *a month <anonimal> Two weeks is a month now? <rehrar> intermittent people in #kovri from mid April to near end of May? <anonimal> What does #kovri have to do with your FFS? <rehrar> ummm...I'm just explaining why I felt it would be better to hold up on the work :/ <anonimal> If I can't make it for ~2 weeks, that's when other people are needed most; not the other way around. <anonimal> Well, whatever your rationale, I don't think anyone else cares if you weren't working on your FFS so, you probably won't hear any other complaints. <rehrar> I have been working on my FFS. In fact it should be done today or tomorrow. <anonimal> Sucks for me though because I get the brunt of it. <anonimal> You just said you delayed your work, and now you're telling me you've been working... <anonimal> Which one is it? <rehrar> ......... <rehrar> it hasn't been delayed the entire time anonimal <rottensalty07_> anonimal: I believe you got twisted there... <rottensalty07_> He didn't work on the main thing for few days, but was working documenting under the table... <rehrar> I was working on it for a couple weeks, then took a break while things died down, and then resumed recently when things picked back up <anonimal> If your last payout was 2 months ago, and you said you delayed your work for 2 months, that equals 0 work if I understand correctly that 2 - 2 = 0 <anonimal> Ok <rehrar> yes, but as you corrected, it wasn't two months, and my "month or two" comment wasn't correct as you said <anonimal> I can't account for under the table work. <rehrar> excuse me for speaking flippantly <rehrar> I can PR the documentation work that I've done, but you had said that you weren't liking the whole "DO NOT MERGE" culture that had happened last time I did a PR to prove work <anonimal> So what's been done. <rehrar> this is what I have been trying to explain :P <anonimal> DO NOT MERGE equals not complete so why be paid for something that hasn't been completed. <anonimal> WIP is one thing, but you're off the hook after this FFS. <anonimal> So, is it done? <anonimal> You set the deadlines of Q1, not me. I just want to see where we are. <rehrar> Documenation with oneiric_, which is in progress, sent a PR with the recent multilingual changes that were on the getmonero.og site, lots and lots of logo work, fielding a few dev people that contacted out of interest, serhack collab for Mastering Monero, kovri defcon work <rehrar> documentation is not done, but fairly far along. oneiric_ can attest that we spent quite some time working through various OS's, as not all the instrutions worked 100% and there was a large amount of trouble shooting <rehrar> *instructions <oneiric_> That's true, we worked on Debian builds, and a couple of the build options. <anonimal> Ok <rehrar> the OS specific documentation also requires a custom HTML/CSS scheme for the Get Started page, which I have experimented with and not found a solution for <anonimal> I don't think all of this is needed though. <oneiric_> I was a bit unsure of a couple flags, and why the build was failing without them. <anonimal> We have a table in the readme <anonimal> What's the goal? <rehrar> one of the things we discussed was the rewrite the kovri docs <rehrar> and to do it in a more user friendly wa <rehrar> *way <rehrar> I do indeed have a table as well, sitting in my branch of kovri docs <rehrar> I can PR it right this second for proof <anonimal> I ended up having to do the docs myself. https://github.com/monero-project/kovri-docs/pull/48 <anonimal> It's June. This kind of stuff needed to be done Q1. <anonimal> The user-guide could use improving though. <anonimal> Anyway, whatever. What's done is done. <rehrar> the new multilingual scheme also requires different stuff for the way the site is handled <rehrar> PR sent <anonimal> Ok <rehrar> the Kovri site is quite different from the Monero site, in that it relies on the pulled docs, which has pros and cons. Simplifies some things and complicates others. <anonimal> Yes, but this doesn't change that I'm having to do things myself; things you said you would do. <anonimal> Also, what have you done with r/kovri? <anonimal> AFAICT nothing for this FFS. <anonimal> In fact, someone else had to come and moderate because of spam. <anonimal> Have you done any r/kovri work that I'm unaware of? <rehrar> no <anonimal> "/r/Kovri design moderation and upkeep" <-- https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/89677/rehrar-s-2018-q1-kovri-proposal <anonimal> Ok <anonimal> Anything else for point 3. Contributor FFS check-in / status ? <oneiric_> We already talked about mine, nothing else from me <anonimal> 4. Alpha release discussion <anonimal> The date is by defcon. <anonimal> I have no clue where pigeons is. <anonimal> I can't develop on BSD nor windows. These meta issue tickets are piling up. <anonimal> The alpha will be a sum result of what the community can handle. <anonimal> s/I can't develop on BSD nor windows/I can't develop on BSD nor windows because of https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/178 and https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/238 <rehrar> I'll ping pigeons right now <anonimal> These shouldn't be issues. This is why we need to move on https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/237 <anonimal> I'm already donating my time. If I wasn't donating that, then I'd be donating my money. <rehrar> hmmm...ok. Do you think it's worthwhile to have us kovri people set up some stuff and maintain them? <anonimal> That's the point of #237, or at least one of the points. <anonimal> We're running out of time, anything else on 4. Alpha release discussion? <rehrar> right, but we can get an action item on that in that we can have someone do it specifically for Kovri. Other workgroups can follow suit as they want. <anonimal> Moving the issue from Monero Project Meta to Monero Project Taiga defeats the purpose of decentralization. <anonimal> But no one is stopping you from doing that. <rehrar> I can set up a Kovri taiga :) <rehrar> and we can have our various Kovri related tasks on there instead of on the getmonero one <anonimal> That won't work, because you're paid by Ric do work for Monero Project. <anonimal> Me or someone else would need to host it. <anonimal> But you can do whatever you want. <anonimal> 10 minutes left, we need to move on. <anonimal> 5. Public relations discussion <anonimal> _4matter is doing some great work behind the scenes in this area. <anonimal> He couldn't make the meeting but I'm assuming he'll make the next one. <anonimal> I like his ideas/approach. He can speak more when he returns. <anonimal> I advised him that he shouldn't repeat the work that rehrar's done. rehrar did a ton of work in the outreach area and, no fault of his own, it had mixed results. <rehrar> it was an eye opening experience :D <anonimal> I'll add an item to the next meeting regarding public relations. <anonimal> rehrar got to learn that developers are like violinists: <anonimal> they all think they're hot shit or that they are soloist material - but many are not :) <anonimal> s/violinists/young classical violinists/ <anonimal> Anyway, inside classical humor. <anonimal> I watched rehrar's jitsi meeting recently. I think you have a penchant for sales. <anonimal> If you haven't successfully done that, I wouldn't be surprised if you do more of that. <rehrar> sales? Like selling stuff? <rehrar> Selling people on stuff, I guess. <anonimal> Yeah, and PR. <rehrar>shrug not really one of my interests, but thanks. <rehrar> :) <ErCiccione> sorry, just finished to read the logs, i'm a bit late to the party. anything you guys want to tell me about translating getkovri? <anonimal> Well it's come in handy. <anonimal> Hi ErCiccione <rehrar> PR sent ErCiccione with the newest updates similar to getmonero.org <ErCiccione> hello :) <rehrar> but since getkovri is set up differently, there is still a substantial amount that is not done via tags <rehrar> handled via kovri-docs <ErCiccione> seen it, tomorrow i will give it a better look and i will change the instructions on taiga if needed <rehrar> I'm updating the README for the site after this meeting <ErCiccione> ok, perfect will read the workflow changes from there <anonimal> Thanks for all the work you've done too, ErCiccione. <_4matter> anonimal: saw the ping above. On mobile and out of town for a wedding, but I will read through the above. <_4matter> :) <anonimal> _4matter: ok, I said that you weren't around and other things. No rush. <anonimal> ErCiccione: anything else? <rehrar> question: should we have a Kovri defcon meeting on the weekday so it's easier to attend? Separate from the overall defcon meeting on Saturdays? <ErCiccione> anonimal: happy to help. no, not from me. Will try to find some more contributors for translations in future. didn't have much luck with that last reddit post <anonimal> Yes, or move the defcon meetings to a later time on Saturdays. <rehrar> I can request it. What time is good? <rehrar> This time? <anonimal> Good luck ErCiccione, you'll find them. <ErCiccione> :) <anonimal> I know where michael is geographically so I understand 15:00 UTC. It's really up to him since he's heading the show. <rehrar> alright, I'll send him a message. <anonimal> But if the community wants me involved, then they'll have to budge just a little. <anonimal> If not, then they'll be leaving me out and a big chunk of the project. <anonimal> Which has been the case. <rehrar> Honestly, Kovri is one of the bigger things that should be at Defcon, at least imo. <anonimal> Even though I repeatedly asked if the community meetings could be moved slightly. <anonimal> For months. And months. <anonimal> But here we are. <rehrar> And I'll fight to make sure you and Kovri are fairly represented there. <rehrar> For community meetings, would an hour or two later be better? <rehrar> my client refuses to respond <anonimal> 17:00 UTC if possible, but that conflicts with the community meetings. <anonimal> sgp has always been pretty staunch about that timeslot. <rehrar> I'll tweak a few nipples and see what I can't get done <anonimal> ouch <rehrar> sometimes you gotta pull out the big guns <anonimal> tweezers <anonimal> If they won't budge, whatever we did worked last time rehrar <anonimal> Was it a Tuesday at 20:00 or around there <anonimal> Yeah, that. <rehrar> after the meeting, we can discuss your meta issues for decentralization. I've got a few ideas (that don't involve me or Core Team). <anonimal> Defcon is a lot of work, that's for sure. <rehrar> or whenever you have the time <rehrar> dude, what makes defcon a bigger headache is that BCOS won't communicate with us :( <anonimal> I don't have any time for anything. I don't even have time to get to "6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A" <anonimal> Ideas are welcome though, of course. <rehrar> ok. I'll put it in the Issue <anonimal> What's the deal with BCOS? <rehrar> they...aren't responding to emails in a timely manner (or at all) <_Slack> <sean> background Seinfeld music <anonimal> Or you can paste here if you want and I'll respond <anonimal> lol sean <anonimal> "So what's the deal with BCOS?!" <rehrar> Alright, i will be fairly unavailable starting tomorrow and through the 14th <anonimal> "Can the NOT afford to communicate with Monero?!" <rehrar> fyi for everyone here :) <rehrar> will respond to Wire or Signal if need be, but limited IRC <anonimal> Sorry sean, I can't top your line with anything funnier. <_Slack> <sean> BCOS. <_Slack> Command sent from Slack by sean: <_Slack> ...that's the joke. <anonimal> Ok. Thanks for the headsup rehrar. <rehrar> it's crazy that nobody's ever heard of them before this <anonimal> lol sean <rehrar> but they got such a prominent spot at Defcon <rehrar>shrug oh well <anonimal> rehrar: and will anyone ever hear about them after defcon... <rehrar> evidently they were at last defcon in a village or something <rehrar> disappeared for a y ear <rehrar> then came back for the next one :D <_Slack> <sean> They did post that Coinbase is a sponsor, so I'm wondering why they're so damn disorganized. <anonimal> I don't know. <rehrar> anyways <oneiric_> For 6, I spent most of late-April to May working on multiple subscriptions. Few unit tests left, break it up into smaller chunks for review, and it should be ready. <anonimal> Ok, anything else before we move on? We're in overdrive. <anonimal> Thank you oneiric_, keeping us on track. <anonimal> 6. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A <anonimal> Ok <anonimal> Oh, I didn't mention, for this and for the FFS check-in, I'll be submitting the next milestone too. <rehrar> woohoo! <rehrar> you pushing the limits, man <anonimal> lol, I'm glad someone is excited, haha <anonimal> Well at close to 180 hours, yes, I'll be submitting. <rehrar> for real, the community doesn't appreciate the stupid amounts of work you put in to this project <anonimal> I'm tired of the free handouts and I also just want this FFS done as I'm sure everyone else wants too. <anonimal> Thanks rehrar. <anonimal> Yes, they don't. <anonimal> And most people also think fluffypony is the CEO and lead developer of Monero. <anonimal> As seen in every recent interview. <rehrar> isn't that the most bizarre thing? <anonimal> Or post somewhere. <rehrar> I see a lot of people post that he started monero too <anonimal> I think he's given up on correcting them. <anonimal> Anyway, so I'm the CEO and lead developer of Monero too. <rehrar> Creator, lead dev, and CEO. Must be nice. :P <anonimal> And I have several lambos and boats. <anonimal> Hey, this fantasy land is pretty sweet. <rehrar> let me in :( <oneiric_> Any jets flown by unicorns? <anonimal> 7. Any additional meeting items <anonimal> rehrar: it's simple: just say it and it appears. <anonimal> oneiric_: yes. As many as you want. <rehrar> No other items from me. <anonimal> Nothing from me but I'm on autopilot right now anyway. If I missed something, please yell. <anonimal> Shall we schedule a kovri defcon meeting and if the community channel agrees to be flexible, we just cancel the kovri defcon meeting, rehrar? <oneiric_> Same, anything else I have can be discussed outside meeting, or wait until the next one. <rehrar> that sounds like a sane thing to do <rehrar> pinging sgp_[m] now <anonimal> I'll open the github issue. <anonimal> 8. Confirm next meeting date/time <rehrar> Google calendar knows all <anonimal> July 5th? <anonimal> Or sooner? <anonimal> I can't do 21st but can do 14th and 28th. <anonimal> rehrar probably can't do the 14th <rehrar> can't do 14th as stated, but can do 28th <rehrar> ^ mind reader <anonimal> oneiric_: 28th? <oneiric_> 28th works for me too <sgp_[m]> anonimal I must have missed your repeated desire to move the commubity meetings. I didn't realize they conflicted with your schedule, especially since there was a significant period without kovri meetings. I'm open to working out a schedule that works for everyone <anonimal> sgp_[m]: this goes back to the beginning of the year if not later <anonimal> Whenever you started the community channel. <anonimal> It's all on github and/or irc logs. <anonimal> I just gave up complaining. <anonimal> rehrar: oneiric_ I'll open a new issue for the next kovri meeting <rehrar> ok, great <anonimal> I do look forward to resolving the Meeting Solutions issue though. <oneiric_> right on <anonimal> One simple solution is a meeting bot which uploads logs to a website automatically. <anonimal> This is old-school, done-to-death solution and works well. <anonimal> And when you want to know the next meeting: !meeting <rehrar> that's pretty neat <anonimal> supybot did/does this, as did others <anonimal> I have no idea who's doing what anymore <anonimal> I haven't been to a Tor meeting in ages but they had their bot the last I saw. <anonimal> Anyway, simple solution; but doesn't satisfy the modern age very well afaict <rehrar> ICO a solution <anonimal> That's always the solution <rehrar> it's never not the solution <anonimal> "Honey can you grab me milk from the store?" "Sure, startup an ICO." <anonimal> Alright, meeting done? <rehrar> Ye <rehrar> bai everyone <rehrar> kisses for all <anonimal> Thanks everyone