monero-site/_posts/2018-05-29-logs-for-the-kovri-defcon-meeting-held-on-2018-05-29.md

---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Kovri DefCon Meeting Held on 2018-05-29
summary: Discussion of the Kovri table, materials and presentation at DefCon
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]
author: selsta / anonimal
---

# Logs  

**\<anonimal>** 1. Greetings  
**\<anonimal>** 2. Table & Materials discussion  
**\<anonimal>** 3. Presentation discussion  
**\<anonimal>** 4. Change Kovri logo to include pug puppy  
**\<anonimal>** Salutations  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Hi  
**\<anonimal>** So many meetings  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** We prolly shoulda merged.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Maybe ping msvb-lab xmrscott?  
**\<anonimal>** I don't know how we could've tacked on more onto that 2 hour meeting  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** They're working on Defcon stuff too.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** With willpower  
**\<anonimal>** msvb is almost never here  
**\<anonimal>** in this channel  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Let me message.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** I pinged the plebs.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Let's get started.  
**\<anonimal>** 2. Table & Materials discussion  
**\<anonimal>** Lead the way, rehrar  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Yay. Ok, so we will need to assume (unless told otherwise, which might not happen, even up until the day of) that we will have two tables.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Those tables can be split into time slots (like morning and afternoon), and they can also be split in half.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Meaning half the table for one Monero project, and have the table for another.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** One thing to note, Kovri does not have to have a table.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** But if we want one, we should put our intention of having one (and for what preferred times) we want them.  
**\<anonimal>** "have to have a table" as in it's own table or shared table?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** If we want one, we can decide the format. Just answering questions? A high school style diorama poster board thingy? Etc.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Meaning if we don't want to designate the manpower to having someone man the table, we are obviously not obligated to have a Kovri presence on the tables period.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Maybe a presentation is enough.  
**\<anonimal>** Hmm  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: At this Saturday's DefCon meeting (on #monero-community) we'll likely decide if tables will be shared time or space wise.  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: ok  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Realistically, the Kovri reps will be anonimal and myself.  
**\<anonimal>** Have BCOS been responsive regarding table decisions or is that entirely on us?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** They haven't said anything about anything. :D  
**\<msvb-lab>** They have not been responsive, and it's our responsibility to respect that.  
**\<anonimal>** ok  
**\<anonimal>** So we'll just do our own thing?  
**\<msvb-lab>** One possibility is that they aren't planning accordingly and the day of village there's no need (according to them) for BCOS tables, then we get more and don't need to share.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Best for Kovri is to have a table time slot that doesn't overwhelm the sadly few people staffing it.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Please do at least 2 hours on two different days, since Kovri is important and people need the chance to check it out.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Whether half the table is consumed or the whole table is probably insignificant.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Ye.  
**\<anonimal>** Ok, so is that the best case or worst case scenario?  
**\<anonimal>** No matter what, we'll have some sort of table usage?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** I can switch off with you anonimal on the table.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Yes.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** As one of the lead managers for Defcon for Monero, I have a strong Kovri bias. ;)  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: Define best and worst, like for you the table staff seeing hundreds is boring and stressful for you but good for the project.  
**\<anonimal>** For only 2 hours on 2 different days? Or is there the potential for more time than that? Sorry if I'm not following.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** There is potential for more. That's a requested minimum.  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: Yes, I'm requesting that Kovri is at least accessible to people wanting to learn about it (by having a table.)  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: good point, I was thinking about that. Worst being worst for the project e.g., not enough table time.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Minimum 2 hours on two days, but if you like (and we can afford the space) then you should do full time on all three days.  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: We've got invitations out to several groups and only one rejection. So there may be a few others with table duty.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** I would argue that Kovri is important enough that if they want a permanent residence at a table (half or otherwise) they should get it.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** If Monero has four half tables to work with, one should be devoted to Kovri.  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: Yes, it's very tempting to decide like that. I like the idea, but still think we should try to cancel some variables and at least give others the chance to codecide?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Followed by the questions:  
**\<anonimal>** If I'm fulltime table duty for those 3 days, then that gives me no time to see talks right?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** 1. What would we do at said Kovri table?  
**\<msvb-lab>** Variables like if we get three of the four tables, for example.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** 2. What materials do we need to do it?  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: That's what you need to decide, fulltime at a table is a horrible life to live.  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Are you interested in Monero talks or Defcon talks?  
**\<msvb-lab>** I dont' recommend it.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Isn't there at least one other person on site that can do Kovri?  
**\<anonimal>** I'm assuming the community will fund me to do fulltime at the table? I would hope to be funded because, as I've mentioned in passing, defcon is pretty much my only vacation time in a year.  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: if we can get a 3rd person interested, I think that'd be great  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: Good question, my choice would be to make sure you have fun and not feel obliged to inform and educate and just work.  
**\<msvb-lab>** There are 74 people in this channel, who will be at DefCon and can help staff the Kovri table?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** Anonimal, would you consider anyone qualified?  
**\<\_Slack> \<sean>** I'm planning on adding Kovri to a project later this year, so I have the tech knowledge at least.  
**\<\_Slack> \<sean>** (Plus manning the walkie-talkies probably isn't going to be full-time.)  
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: fluffypony, MoroccanMalinois, selsta if he's happened to have time to lurk while keeping his busy schedule, oneiric but he's not around, some others possibly if they're interested  
**\<msvb-lab>** sean: Dangerous to peel our core competence from the village project and staff Kovri, but Kovri is so important that maybe we should make an exception. As long as you're interested enough to staff the table.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Whoever gets private Kovri lessons from anonimal in order to get up to speed is a lucky guy in any case.  
**\<anonimal>** ^ I can do that  
**\<msvb-lab>** I wish I were that person, but sean don't forget there's considerable risk. We might get swamped.  
**\<\_Slack> \<sean>** Yea, I'm a lucky guy! :slightly\_smiling\_face:  
**\<anonimal>** Ok I'm getting the feeling that I should just plan to man the table for 3 days. I don't care if it may suck, if it needs to be done then I'll get it done.  
**\<anonimal>** So I'll plan accordingly.  
**\<anonimal>** But if rehrar and sean are there too, then amazing.  
**\<anonimal>** Would 2 or more people at a table be too much?  
**\<anonimal>** Me + rehrar, me + sean, for example?  
**\<xmrmatterbridge> \<rehrar>** I'd say we are stretched a bit thin right now  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: rehrar's floor plan specifies two chairs per table, and it's possible the tables will be shared. But we add two more chairs (crammed together) and that should work.  
**\<anonimal>** ok great  
**\<msvb-lab>** The couches are not far (if we get them) so there is a place for overflow.  
**\<anonimal>** What are the hours again? 10am to 5pm?  
**\<msvb-lab>** 10 to 19  
**\<msvb-lab>** 10 to 7pm.  
**\<\_Slack> \<sean>** For reference: https://taiga.getmonero.org/media/attachments/c/d/b/7/c463870aa1ad7515b244f0f88d1de6a743ec11c9f96e4728b55bbc8572ba/defcon-floorplan-1.png  
**\<msvb-lab>** That the two main days Friday and Saturday.  
**\<anonimal>** Damn, I'm not a morning person.  
**\<msvb-lab>** Sunday is shorter, from 10 to 13.  
**\<anonimal>** How effective would it be for a single person to man a table for that length?  
**\<anonimal>** I guess that's a bit vague of a question  
**\<rehrar>** that question of effectiveness depends on what we want to accomplish with the table  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: It's not difficult to estimate how long you can focus while fielding poorly informed questions.  
**\<anonimal>** lol  
**\<anonimal>** Ok, can I think more about table staffing and we move onto discussing materials?  
**\<rehrar>** yes  
**\<msvb-lab>** We should have a village rule that nobody inside is allowed to not enjoy themselves, so that's why I'm concerned with plans to try to do it all yourself.  
**\<rehrar>** the better rule is that nobody should enjoy themselves  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: I read that as "nobody inside is allowed to enjoy themselves" <-- my subconscious at work, lol  
**\<msvb-lab>** No enjoyment, okay. Next topic?  
**\<anonimal>** Materials.  
**\<rehrar>** Ye  
**\<anonimal>** Perhaps materials will help decide staffing.  
**\<rehrar>** Kovri t shirts!  
**\<rehrar>** if you've made a commit to kovri, kovri-site, or kovri-docs, you should get a free one  
**\<anonimal>** rehrar do you have a list of materials prepared?  
**\<msvb-lab>** BCOS seems to have good t shirt connections, all their members are in India and it's possibly cheap there.  
**\<rehrar>** I do not, since as I have said a couple of times already, it depends on what we're trying to accomplish with Kovri's presence at Defcon  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: ok, great  
**\<msvb-lab>** They have offered us such help, in case Kovri folks want I can share the contacts.  
**\<rehrar>** once we narrow down those goals, I'll come up with one asap  
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: simple: spam table.  
**\<anonimal>** T-shirts, stickers, merchandise,  
**\<rehrar>** I'll buy a lot of spam then  
**\<rehrar>** of the digital and meat variety  
**\<anonimal>** something looping on a display if possible  
**\<anonimal>** something interactive if possible  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: How do you want them to contact you, should I give them your email address or something?  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: good question. Do you mean BSOC?  
**\<msvb-lab>** ...in order to discuss if their source of t shirts is cheaper and if you want to use that source.  
**\<anonimal>** anonimal@getmonero.org or twitter of which I need to change my handle a.s.a.p to something human memorable  
**\<rehrar>** You know that goopy material that if you hit it hard it's quite firm, but if you barely touch it you sink into it? We should have some of that at the table. Say it symbolizes Kovri. Get people to interactively 'touch' Kovri.  
**\<rehrar>** but for real, if the table is going to be predominanlty answering questions, and touting the alpha release, then it shouldn't need too much  
**\<rehrar>** maybe a "Kovri facts sheet" with some nice graphics  
**\<anonimal>** Hmm. I know we can do better than that though.  
**\<selsta>** 22:27 <@anonimal> rehrar: fluffypony, MoroccanMalinois, selsta if he's happened to have time to lurk while keeping his busy schedule, oneiric but he's not around, some others possibly if they're interested <-- while it would be really cool, DEF CON as my first conference would be too much for me :/ (if I understood the chat right)  
**\<anonimal>** But we just don't have the time  
**\<anonimal>** selsta: too much financially or other?  
**\<rehrar>** selsta: what if we offered you a stay in a five star hotel with caviar and lots of ladies surrounding you for the duration of your stay?  
**\<selsta>** anonimal: not financially  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: Just keep in mind (regarding materials) that the Defcon and hotel are a bit extreme about us placing and moving things around.  
**\<anonimal>** selsta: ok.  
**\<msvb-lab>** We're not allowed to place our own fixtures, posters, and larger objects. And we can't move tables or chairs.  
**\<selsta>** I’ve never been to such a conference and flying to almost the other side of the world sounds too much for me :P  
**\<rehrar>** they have become the very system they are rebelling against  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: ok but I would be allowed to place display items on the table, let's say 3 to 4 feet high if needed? Like, there's no space constraints for what's on the table right?  
**\<rehrar>** I think a good action item for now is the "Kovri and You: A Fact Sheet", and as new fun ideas pop up, the materials list can expand  
**\<anonimal>** Alright, the basics then. T-shirts too?  
**\<rehrar>** yeah, I'll make some designs  
**\<rehrar>** old logo and new logo ones  
**\<rehrar>** we can move on for now  
**\<anonimal>** I'd like to bring more than that; especially if I'm going to sit there for 3 days.  
**\<rehrar>** a cushion for the tushion is helpful  
**\<anonimal>** As in, I'd personally bring something. We'll see.  
**\<rehrar>** ok  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: Yes, anything on the table we can manipulate ourselves.  
**\<anonimal>** ok, great  
**\<anonimal>** 3. Presentation discussion  
**\<rehrar>** bcosvillage.org  
**\<rehrar>** anonimal submit a form thingy :)  
**\<rehrar>** talks may be recorded  
**\<anonimal>** lovely  
**\<rehrar>** if that's an issue, we can see about either not having kovri talk recorded, or somebody else present  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: I'm quite sure it's our decision if one, none, all, or some presentations are recorded.  
**\<msvb-lab>** The main problem is to have a staff realize the importance of controlling this, and be on site.  
**\<rehrar>** do we have to provide the people to do the recording?  
**\<anonimal>** I was under the impression I would give a small mini-workshop, not a presentation.  
**\<rehrar>** a mini-workshop is also fine  
**\<rehrar>** but the form submitted is the same, I think  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: I don't know who records, but it's a good question. Is it important enough that I should ask DefCon about it?  
**\<rehrar>** I would say so  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal rehrar: Yes, regardless of workshop, presentation, or other format, it should go in the CFP portal.  
**\<rehrar>** in regards to presentation vs workshop, I don't think it matters much  
**\<rehrar>** watch out anonimal, it's google forms  
**\<anonimal>** ok msvb-lab, so we don't get any special privilege with BCOS, i.e., we don't just "email them" but would need to do CFP portal officially  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: It's fine to do some crazy identity rebranding, and just post to monero-cfpjury@lists.getmonero.org with information about it.  
**\<rehrar>** msvb-lab: you'll be hard pressed to find as privacy focused a person as anonimal. He once told me his favorite ice cream and did brain surgery to remove the brain cell that that memory was stored in  
**\<anonimal>** lol  
**\<msvb-lab>** Or even just post your proposal to that address and request that a jury person put it in the database for you. It will still land in Google's hands.  
**\<anonimal>** At this point, if the community wants to me to speak and funds me to go and speak, I will speak and it can be recorded. My #1 concern is wtf I will speak about for X number of minutes that is worthy of being recorded.  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: The reason to have the information in the Google form database is that the ten or more CFP jury people may independently access the information whenever they want.  
**\<msvb-lab>** And it wasn't my idea to use Google but another person's. Fine if people have different tastes once in a while I think.  
**\<anonimal>** But ironically BCOS is supposed to be a privacy village, or at least that's what I thought.  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: I have no idea if recording makes anything better or not, but I'm sure that the decision will be made by each speaker.  
**\<rehrar>** nah, just a blockchain security one  
**\<msvb-lab>** The master of ceremonies (probably AJ) will be in charge of reminding each speaker to make this choice.  
**\<rehrar>** privacy and security intertwine, but as we know, not everyone understand the extent to which they do  
**\<rehrar>** who is aj?  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: ok. Worst case scenario; I would stand up there and tell everyone that they are not allowed to record my intellectual property, blah blah.  
**\<msvb-lab>** We need to decide about photography in general inside the village, if we want to try to control that.  
**\<anonimal>** oh ok  
**\<rehrar>** I'm sure many people in monero wouldn't be thrilled with unsolicited pictures  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: AJ is a great friend of Monero village and Monero hardware.  
**\<msvb-lab>** He's all over the radar on Taiga.  
**\<rehrar>** ok, great  
**\<anonimal>** Question:  
**\<rehrar>** msvb-lab: wanna jot down that we can discuss photo policy on saturday?  
**\<\_Slack> \<ajs>** < AJ  
**\<rehrar>** that's you ajs?  
**\<anonimal>** ajs the one and only  
**\<\_Slack> \<ajs>** yeah, i'll be helping out in that end  
**\<rehrar>** ^  this guy  
**\<anonimal>** Question: between now and the next dc26 meeting, and eventually dc26: what does everyone need from me to have prepared?  
**\<rehrar>** I need your travel expense summaries  
**\<rehrar>** unless you gave them to me and I misplaced them like a loesr  
**\<msvb-lab>** rehrar: I just added it to the agenda on the Saturday Github report.  
**\<anonimal>** I sent them to you already  
**\<rehrar>** remember what I just said about being a loser  
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: per-diem + minor travel  
**\<anonimal>** will send again  
**\<rehrar>** thank you  
**\<msvb-lab>** loesr.  
**\<anonimal>** I'm following msvb-lab and rehrar re: the village  
**\<msvb-lab>** And I lose the game of forgetting to set my status to 'back' too.  
**\<anonimal>** If you need something from me, please let me know. I'll try to cover as many bases as possible though.  
**\<msvb-lab>** What's the next meeting topic?  
**\<rehrar>** pug puppy logo  
**\<anonimal>** Logo stuff  
**\<msvb-lab>** Okay, then I check out for the day.  
**\<anonimal>** But I've been in talks privately with rehrar about that.  
**\<rehrar>** the goal is to have alpha by Defcon, correct?  
**\<anonimal>** Thanks for stopping by msvb-lab  
**\<rehrar>** and it'd be cool to have logo in time for alpha release  
**\<msvb-lab>** anonimal: Not a requirement, but it seems we'll do a ton of deciding on Saturday. If you like, come to the meeting and help decide.  
**\<rehrar>** i.e. "a new era for Kovri blah blah blah?  
**\<rehrar>** thanks msvb-lab  
**\<anonimal>** msvb-lab: ok, I've put it in my calendar. I will have to leave sharply after 1 hour of meeting though.  
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: after what we collaborated on, I'm sure we could something ready in time.  
**\<rehrar>** he's due for his NSA brief  
**\<rehrar>** yep, that's the plan  
**\<rehrar>** ok, that should be it then  
**\<anonimal>** lol  
**\<anonimal>** NSA boxer briefs?  
**\<anonimal>** With spy holes  
**\<anonimal>** Ok, is that enough for the meeting?  
**\<rehrar>** yep